I wanted to start a thread about what base class concepts you feel are needed or you would like to see.
I admit that if you really want to you probably could make just about anything with what exist but that is not the purpose of this thread.
these are a few of my own ideas many of which i have made into homebrewed classes.
Brawler: non monk unarmed warrior
Anatomist: Skilled healer and master of the body
Rifleman: a combat oriented firearm specualist
a non full arcan caster other than the bard
what class ideas do you want or think is needed.
I wanted to start a thread about what base class concepts you feel are needed or you would like to see.
I admit that if you really want to you probably could make just about anything with what exist but that is not the purpose of this thread.
these are a few of my own ideas many of which i have made into homebrewed classes.
Brawler: non monk unarmed warrior
Anatomist: Skilled healer and master of the body
Rifleman: a combat oriented firearm specualista non full arcan caster other than the bard
what class ideas do you want or think is needed.
I like all of those Ideas, especially the non full arcane cast other then a bard, I think that will be the Magus next spring.
I would like to see a Ninja class as well, which can be done with a rouge but still, writing Ninja on a character sheet make me smile.
I would also like to see a Psionic class that uses new rule, I was a fan of the ad&d Psionicist and would like to see a Psionic class closer to that then the 3rd edition version which work to much like spells with point, ad&d they felt different and the power were not all reprints of a spell. of coarse it would need to be better balanced. May be like the way the force is run in Starwars with skill points and feats, no sure just not spell that cost points.
i totally forgot about psionics, yes there really should be a psion base class.
as much as i love the ninja i have always felt that the best way to make a ninja base class for pathfinder would be more of a scout style class but better than the one in the complete adventurer from 3.5.
A base class magic using rogue, I do not like using prestige classes If I do not have too. Yes I know that is lazy. :)
that is the whole point of this thread, it is a good idea.
As a Doctor Who fan, I always wanted a viable non-spellcasting scholar. Someone who put Knowledge skills to good use, and had an extraordinary ability to use Sanctuary while talking. Almost a cross between a non-casting/non-performance bard and a non-sneak-attacking rogue. (Obviously, with some other cool tricks to make up for the loss.)
As a Doctor Who fan, I always wanted a viable non-spellcasting scholar. Someone who put Knowledge skills to good use, and had an extraordinary ability to use Sanctuary while talking. Almost a cross between a non-casting/non-performance bard and a non-sneak-attacking rogue. (Obviously, with some other cool tricks to make up for the loss.)
Right now the Factotum isn't too far from what you want. heck, just getting rid of the few spells it knows isn't going to change the power level much.
Someone who put Knowledge skills to good use, and had an extraordinary ability to use Sanctuary while talking. Almost a cross between a non-casting/non-performance bard and a non-sneak-attacking rogue.
check out some of the bard archetypes in the APG. There's the archivist, which is kind of what you describe but has spells and some performances, but there's other archetypes which give up those so you might find a few good trades.
what about a noble style character, one that gains extra wealth and connections and is the best at social skill rolls.
what about a class that graphs on body parts from slain foes to give the character special abilities of the creature they killed.
like graft on his eyes to gain dark vision
i always thought this was a cool idea
A Cultist class, that combines divine spellcasting with stealth and secrecy. Maybe bardic casting, cleric spell-list, 1/2 sneak attack progression, full channel energy ability, domains, and decent skill selection.
I really liked the druid alternate in 3.5 that did lots of shapechanging for giving up the pet and spontaneous casting. It may not have been the most optimal character, but it was just plain fun. I only changed back to human to talk to people and casting healing, all the rest of the time I was happily shapechanged.
A Cultist class, that combines divine spellcasting with stealth and secrecy. Maybe bardic casting, cleric spell-list, 1/2 sneak attack progression, full channel energy ability, domains, and decent skill selection.
One would think an inquisitor might work, or a re-flavoured bard.
I have always wanted to see a non-casting con-artist/grifter/huckster. I'm always handed a Bard or a Rogue. Neither really fits the flavor I want. I would like to see some impressive, but not supernatural abilities. I had started something a while back but lost steam.
I would also like to see a noble Class.
A Cultist class, that combines divine spellcasting with stealth and secrecy. Maybe bardic casting, cleric spell-list, 1/2 sneak attack progression, full channel energy ability, domains, and decent skill selection.One would think an inquisitor might work, or a re-flavoured bard.
Does the inquisitor get sneak attack? I have not gotten the new stuff yet, only looked at the playtests, but if they did it would totally change my outlook on them.
Does the inquisitor get sneak attack? I have not gotten the new stuff yet, only looked at the playtests, but if they did it would totally change my outlook on them.A Cultist class, that combines divine spellcasting with stealth and secrecy. Maybe bardic casting, cleric spell-list, 1/2 sneak attack progression, full channel energy ability, domains, and decent skill selection.One would think an inquisitor might work, or a re-flavoured bard.
Nope, they don't get sneak attack but IIRC they get some other sneaky stuff and are competent enough in melee to be useful assassins anyway.
+1 for shapeshifting
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Does the inquisitor get sneak attack?
They might as well have. The inquisitor is probably the closest thing to an "everyclass" I've seen since the first edition bard.
As far as base class concepts go, maybe a user of simple machines would be cool. Not full-on steampunk or anything like the artificer, but just an engineer who builds and uses machines ranging from simple things like crossbows to elaborate siege engines. A gadget guy.
There is an idea I've been tossing around for a couple years now but haven't been able to get it to work right. Called a Conduit, it is someone who channels natural energy through there body, like fire or wind or water. I've tried being tied to specific elements of the gamers choice, and I've tried having it open, but I'd like to see it as a base class.
+1 for shapeshifting
+2. A non-caster shapeshifter would be awesomeness.
+1 for shapeshifting+2. A non-caster shapeshifter would be awesomeness.
+3 for that one.
I think a Smart Hero would be a good class concept. Basically, would rely on his wits to overcome challenges. There would be lots of Talent Trees, like inventor, manipulator, engineer, trickster, sage, investigator, planner, leader, etc. Maybe the ability to use mental stats for physical tasks (Int to damage, Wis to initiative, etc.).
Kind of a MacGuyver/Dr. Who/Psych/Mentalist/Chuck/Phedre mash-up.
I think a Smart Hero would be a good class concept. Basically, would rely on his wits to overcome challenges. There would be lots of Talent Trees, like inventor, manipulator, engineer, trickster, sage, investigator, planner, leader, etc. Maybe the ability to use mental stats for physical tasks (Int to damage, Wis to initiative, etc.).
Kind of a MacGuyver/Dr. Who/Psych/Mentalist/Chuck/Phedre mash-up.
don't forget Shurlock Holmes
a very good idea for a base class.
one last thing i would want to add is a spell slayer/witch hunter style class, i really think there should be base class based around fighting spell casters. it just feels like a core concept in a fantasy game.
I think a Smart Hero would be a good class concept. Basically, would rely on his wits to overcome challenges. There would be lots of Talent Trees, like inventor, manipulator, engineer, trickster, sage, investigator, planner, leader, etc. Maybe the ability to use mental stats for physical tasks (Int to damage, Wis to initiative, etc.).
Kind of a MacGuyver/Dr. Who/Psych/Mentalist/Chuck/Phedre mash-up.
don't forget Shurlock Holmes
a very good idea for a base class.
one last thing i would want to add is a spell slayer/witch hunter style class, i really think there should be base class based around fighting spell casters. it just feels like a core concept in a fantasy game.
I knew I forgot someone, then remembered Mycroft's bro, but you ninjaed me.
I think the witch-hunter class should be called the exorcist. It has the "single word, real word, non-compound word" rule for pathfinder base classes.
A base class magic using rogue, I do not like using prestige classes If I do not have too. Yes I know that is lazy. :)
Wizards made the Spell Theif. It was a rouge that stole a persons spells and used it against them. I think its in the Complete Adventurer book.
A base class magic using rogue, I do not like using prestige classes If I do not have too. Yes I know that is lazy. :)Wizards made the Spell Theif. It was a rouge that stole a persons spells and used it against them. I think its in the Complete Adventurer book.
Yeah, the spellthief was a pretty fun class. It combined the skill monkeyness of a bard or rogue, some minor arcane utility, and some really great anti-mage and general anti-magic powers.
If paizo ever makes an exorcist-type class, they should take a good look at the spellthief. It had ways to take spell slots from foes, take active spell effects on opponents and apply them to itself, and even ways to lower the resistances (both energy and spell) of its enemies--and give those defenses to itself! It could steal spell slots from casters and then use that potential to cast the stolen spell itself or use that potential to cast its own spells.
I only got to play a level 1 one once, but it was fun and it surprised a bunch of veteran players with its effectiveness.
A base class magic using rogue, I do not like using prestige classes If I do not have too. Yes I know that is lazy. :)Wizards made the Spell Theif. It was a rouge that stole a persons spells and used it against them. I think its in the Complete Adventurer book.Yeah, the spellthief was a pretty fun class. It combined the skill monkeyness of a bard or rogue, some minor arcane utility, and some really great anti-mage and general anti-magic powers.
If paizo ever makes an exorcist-type class, they should take a good look at the spellthief. It had ways to take spell slots from foes, take active spell effects on opponents and apply them to itself, and even ways to lower the resistances (both energy and spell) of its enemies--and give those defenses to itself! It could steal spell slots from casters and then use that potential to cast the stolen spell itself or use that potential to cast its own spells.
I only got to play a level 1 one once, but it was fun and it surprised a bunch of veteran players with its effectiveness.
In an Eberron game I played in I had a Half-daelkyre spell thief. He was the man. I was one of the key factors in taking down a vampire wizard. The wizard and sorcerer in the party were afraid of me.
Some ideas I've worked into classes or started working into classes or have considered working into classes.
1. Mystic Dervish. Sort of like a divine casting bard. They worship through the means of dance and martial arts, casting divine spells as they maneuver around the battlefield and make unarmed strikes or strikes with special dervish weapons.
Taking ideas from the real whirling dervishes, they could also buff and inspire others through their dance.
2. Mystic Theurge. I always hated the Mystic Theurge prestige class, but the idea of a character combining divine and arcane magic does seem like an essential one. The Mystic Theurge starts from level 1 combining divine and arcane magic, but lacks some of the combat capability of a Cleric.
3. Greater Expert. This would be the Expert advanced to be a PC class.
4. Greater Commoner. This would be a "can do it class", a character who might not have training in magic or arms or divine capabilities, but has pluck and luck and is the sort of character of whom tall tales are told.
5. Celestial Druid. This was motivated when I was running a World of Greyhawk campaign set in the Theocracy of the Pale. I read on the Internet that the deity Pholtus has some Druids who worship him. While this is legal by the RAW (Pholtus is lawful neutral. Druids may be lawful neutral), Pholtus's attitude is such that Druids don't really seem to fit. Druids are just so neutral, while Pholtus is so opinionated.
So I came up with the idea of the Celestial Druid. With skills to operate in the wilderness, the Celestial Druids are motivated to transform the wilderness into a domain of Light.
6. Antidruids. The Celestial Druid may want to eliminate evil and nasty monsters from a wilderness, but still she wants to preserve it as a wilderness area. The Antidruid, in contrast, opposes the concept of the wilderness and would rather replace it with machinery or just destroy it, depending on the motivations of the sponsering deity.
7. Antipaladin. The Blackguard prestige class fits in this role, but as a prestige class, there is an asymmetry. An Antipaladin base class would symmetrically oppose the Paladin base class.
8. Thief. Thieves steal things, but because the Thief is specialized, the mechanics of creating a Thief are simpler than creating a Rogue.
9. Phantasmist. Way back in 1st Edition, there were Magic-Users and Illusionists. And I imagined these as being competing guilds of spellcasters. Then in 2nd Edition, the Illusionists were demoted to being a specialization. And my fantasy world was never the same since.
Then I got the idea of casting the Psion as heirs to the ancient Illusionists, with the modern Illusion specialists being "pretenders" to the title. For this to work, I need a base class that is able to do what the Psions do, but also able to read and write their formulas in magical grimores.
10. Faerie Witch. She casts spells through her connections with the fey world. She is a friend of the fey, and she can both cast spells spontaneously and through reading them from magical grimores. It is her ability to combine spontaneous and prepared spellcasting that separate her from the sorcerers.
11. Runecaster. This is a spellcaster who casts spells using a mechanic like that presented in the Runequest game, where spells are connected to various runes that need to be mastered.
I think the witch-hunter class should be called the exorcist. It has the "single word, real word, non-compound word" rule for pathfinder base classes.
I guess most of my idea are "two real word" concepts: Mystic Dervish, Greater Commoner, Faerie Witch, Celestial Druid.
Or else created from a word and a prefix: Antipaladin, Antidruid.
Although in many cases, the name is motivated by the desire to differentiate my idea from one that is well known. I originally called my class the Dervish, but then the Dervish PrC came out, and my class has more of a mystic inspired flavor, so I changed it. "Faerie Witch" differentiates this idea from the many many other "Witch" ideas that are out there. "Celestial Druids" are like Druids, only with a Celestial bent of mind.
There is an idea I've been tossing around for a couple years now but haven't been able to get it to work right. Called a Conduit, it is someone who channels natural energy through there body, like fire or wind or water. I've tried being tied to specific elements of the gamers choice, and I've tried having it open, but I'd like to see it as a base class.
That reminds me of some ancient 1st Edition classes published in White Dwarf magazines that I'd like to convert.
12) The Elementalist sounds like what you are talking about. Sure, there are Prestige Classes that do this sort of thing, but to get there you have to spend levels _not_ being such a character. With an Elementalist base class you can start out as a specialized natural energy channeller right away.
13) The Houri is a little controversial in our more politically correct times, being essentially a prostitute class. I see them as having a position of honor, actually, combining Rogue abilities with the ability to read and cast magic spells. They could have a real role in making sure that women don't get taken advantage of too much.
There is an idea I've been tossing around for a couple years now but haven't been able to get it to work right. Called a Conduit, it is someone who channels natural energy through there body, like fire or wind or water. I've tried being tied to specific elements of the gamers choice, and I've tried having it open, but I'd like to see it as a base class.That reminds me of some ancient 1st Edition classes published in White Dwarf magazines that I'd like to convert.
12) The Elementalist sounds like what you are talking about. Sure, there are Prestige Classes that do this sort of thing, but to get there you have to spend levels _not_ being such a character. With an Elementalist base class you can start out as a specialized natural energy channeller right away.
13) The Houri is a little controversial in our more politically correct times, being essentially a prostitute class. I see them as having a position of honor, actually, combining Rogue abilities with the ability to read and cast magic spells. They could have a real role in making sure that women don't get taken advantage of too much.
that sounds a bit like the Companions from Firefly
I think the witch-hunter class should be called the exorcist. It has the "single word, real word, non-compound word" rule for pathfinder base classes.I guess most of my idea are "two real word" concepts: Mystic Dervish, Greater Commoner, Faerie Witch, Celestial Druid.
Or else created from a word and a prefix: Antipaladin, Antidruid.
Although in many cases, the name is motivated by the desire to differentiate my idea from one that is well known. I originally called my class the Dervish, but then the Dervish PrC came out, and my class has more of a mystic inspired flavor, so I changed it. "Faerie Witch" differentiates this idea from the many many other "Witch" ideas that are out there. "Celestial Druids" are like Druids, only with a Celestial bent of mind.
Hey, I didn't make the rule!
I just sort of talked about it like I knew what I was talking about.
;-)
I REALLY like the idea of the "Greater Commoner." Sort of like the greengrocer who ends up the king after many perilous quests he stumbled upon. Maybe call it the UNcommoner?
I'm pretty sure I came up with an Int (and Wis and Cha) based skill monkey that used his wits instead of his brawn to overcome his challenges, but I can't seem to find it anywhere....or remember what I called it.
One more post of ideas.
I have the 2nd Edition _Complete Wizard_ book, where each specialization is expanded out into its own kit. I would like to see this done for the various specializations, so that instead of just being a clipped Wizard, a Necromancer or a Conjurer would really be something unique.
On the other hand, it would be difficult to come up with nine unique takes on the arcane spellcaster idea. Le sigh.
The 2nd Edition _Complete Wizard_ also had guidelines for making new specializations. So I created one:
14) Archetyper. This is a kind of Wizard for the Jung at heart. Unfortunately, it is really hard to translate into 3rd Edition/3.5/Pathfinder because the main emphasis of the class is an explanation for all the race/class/level restrictions in the 1st and 2nd Edition rules. Of course, these were all thrown out in 3rd Edition.
Still, the idea perhaps can be salvaged as a kind of "dreamwalker" who is able to travel through planes of identity. Perhaps, though, it would be better as a prestige class.
One more idea that came up in a conversation in a chat room about orcs and magic:
15) The Witchdoctor is an arcane caster from a primitive society that has not yet invented books. This means that the Witchdoctor must have some other means of storing and retrieving her arcane spells.
Witchdoctors also tend to use more elaborate rituals than wizards, dancing around huts, shaking bones, and sacrificing chickens. They are also good at sniffing out and countering magic, especially from witches and evil spirits.
One more idea that came up in a conversation in a chat room about orcs and magic:
15) The Witchdoctor is an arcane caster from a primitive society that has not yet invented books. This means that the Witchdoctor must have some other means of storing and retrieving her arcane spells.
Witchdoctors also tend to use more elaborate rituals than wizards, dancing around huts, shaking bones, and sacrificing chickens. They are also good at sniffing out and countering magic, especially from witches and evil spirits.
I see the witch class as being more like a witch doctor.
I see the witch class as being more like a witch doctor.One more idea that came up in a conversation in a chat room about orcs and magic:
15) The Witchdoctor is an arcane caster from a primitive society that has not yet invented books. This means that the Witchdoctor must have some other means of storing and retrieving her arcane spells.
Witchdoctors also tend to use more elaborate rituals than wizards, dancing around huts, shaking bones, and sacrificing chickens. They are also good at sniffing out and countering magic, especially from witches and evil spirits.
Except that Witchdoctors seem to hate Witches.
What this means and how this is best translated to 3.5/Pathfinder, I am not sure. They could be modeled with the same class.
This is pulling from BESM D20 terrority, but classes like these could be written up for Pathfinder and used for a specific setting.
I've long had an idea for running a campaign inspired by the Legion of Super-Heroes. The theory would be that in the far future, anybody who wanted could get nano-cybernetic enhancements and gain "super powers", which would be modeled by training in specialized classes. This idea could be translated into a fantasy setting by using "magic/divine enhancements" instead of "nano-cybernetic". Some classes that could be devised are:
16) The Strongman (or woman) is very strong. Maybe he doesn't know what do to with a glaive, but he sure can punch. And lift. And bend. He's tough. He might even have a good Dexterity. His physical abilities are so great that he can even master various tricks which are downright spell-like. For example, one of the tricks he could learn at mid-levels would be the ability to punch a stone wall, walk through it, and all the stones fall exactly into place to rebuild the wall.
17) The Speedster is very very fast. She left the wind far, far behind and is now catching up to it again. She can move so fast as to be invisible if she wants to, and like the Strongman has her own repretrior of tricks.
While thinking about other settings to pull ideas from (and not counting those settings like Deadlands D20 which already have classes like the Rowdy and the Maverick defined), I came up with even more ideas:
18) The Athlete does not have the specialized military training of the Fighter, but has all around athletic ability that can come in handy on an adventure.
The spellthief is what I was thinking of when I suggested it. I would love to see Paizo's take on it.
what about a class that graphs on body parts from slain foes to give the character special abilities of the creature they killed.
like graft on his eyes to gain dark vision
i always thought this was a cool idea
I like this idea, I also think the Dr Who idea and the mechanist type classes would be nice.
Most of these classes sound like they could be made with a little effort usng the existing base classes, something similiar to the Uneathed Arcana.
Witch Doctor: Could be a modified druid or a Spirit Shaman Remake.
Specialist Wizards: Pathfinder does a pretty good job with each specialist, but if you want more, the above mentioned Unearthed Arcana had some great ideas (Necromancers getting an undead companion for example).
Skill Based Class: A modified expert. This would take some thought to make it on par with existing classes.
Shapeshifter: This one would be interesting. I wonder if you could use the Summoner as a base, and simply grant yourself extraordinary abilities instead of a summoned creature.
Psions: I love psionics. The 2nd Edition system was seriously flawed since a lot of powers were similiar to spells, without saves. I think trying to completely seperate psionics from magic is a lost cause, but this isn't the tread for that. I am currently tinkering with a Wilder remake using something similiar to a Warlock's Eldritch Blast.
I kind of miss specialty priest, but domains do a good job of fixing that as well.
Most of these classes sound like they could be made with a little effort usng the existing base classes, something similiar to the Uneathed Arcana.I admit that if you really want to you probably could make just about anything with what exist but that is not the purpose of this thread.
i think what he meant was tinkering with the abilities of some of the base characters already to make a new base class.
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i think what he meant was tinkering with the abilities of some of the base characters already to make a new base class.Sorry. I'm just really defensive because I'm annoyed by the dismissiveness people who propose "you can just reflavor an existing class" have.
I admit I'm in the "reflavor" crowd, but there are some things that just can't be done from level 1 with what we have now, and some (like shapeshifter) can't be done until level 4 at best!.
If it can be done by level 2 with existing multi-classing and reflavoring I'll make a player use that, but if it can't and they're really stuck on the idea I'd be willing to allow a homebrew class of some form to fill the gap. Like for shapeshifter: druid, lose Nature Bond and spontaneous summons, gain wild shape at level 1 and treat your druid level as 3 higher for that ability. If they don't want the nature-castery-theme I'd ditch the casting, up BAB to full and give them an extra use/day and maybe a monk/ranger-like bonus feat progression.I think a Marvel-style hero class would be awesome, gaining various Ex/Su abilities as they level related to whatever their core ability set was. It'd have to be rather build-your-own, but an ice-man wouldn't be too out of place in a D&D world. It'd probably be mostly high/unlimited use/day abilities with a few sprinkled 1-3/day.
my view point has always been that if you are reflavoring a class for what you want them most of the time you are settling for a class rather than getting what you really want at least that's how it always feel when my only option is to use the existing classes.
i will always prefer to make my own classes rather than make a character sort of close to what i want to play.
A true military leader...one that combines the inspirtion of the Bard with the BAB of 1-20 and fighter like feats instead of spells. This is probably what a noble should be since in medieval/rennaissance nobility made up the officers in combat.
I would like a Craftsman with magical abiities. Similar but better than Ebberrons Artificer. I saw a couple good ones in some 3rd party stuff for 3.5 before. Basically mixing a rogue's talents with a bard's SPells per day, but with conjuring and evocatin spells mixed in.
I would really like to see some prestige classes rebuilt as core classes: Assassin, Eldritch Knight, Pathfincer Chronicler, and Mystic theurge.
In fact a 20 level Pathfinder Chronicler would be a great way to have the Scholar class mentioned by a few guys.
Here is a class from D&D wiki that is a military leader. I don't think it will be too hard to convert to Pathfinder rules. I'm thinking of adding it to my setting.