I have a rather weird question regarding the grease spell that actually came up in play today. Consider a situation where your party is up against a rather large creature that can grapple, such as a frost giant. Imagine that frost giant grappled one of your party members and then began to wield the party member as an improvised weapon against the rest of the party. Imagine then that the magic user of your party cast grease on the grappled party member (or at least his armor) to help that party member escape the giant's clutches. Who gets the reflex save against the grease spell? Does the target of the spell, your grappled friend, who would likely voluntarily fail the saving throw to get greased up and have a +10 bonus to escape the grapple? Or does the forst giant get the saving throw who is wielding your friend like a weapon?
The spell can also be used to create a greasy coating on an item. Material objects not in use are always affected by this spell, while an object wielded or employed by a creature requires its bearer to make a Reflex saving throw to avoid the effect. If the initial saving throw fails, the creature immediately drops the item. A saving throw must be made in each round that the creature attempts to pick up or use the greased item. A creature wearing greased armor or clothing gains a +10 circumstance bonus on Escape Artist checks and combat maneuver checks made to escape a grapple, and to their CMD to avoid being grappled.
|
I have a rather weird question regarding the grease spell that actually came up in play today. Consider a situation where your party is up against a rather large creature that can grapple, such as a frost giant. Imagine that frost giant grappled one of your party members and then began to wield the party member as an improvised weapon against the rest of the party. Imagine then that the magic user of your party cast grease on the grappled party member (or at least his armor) to help that party member escape the giant's clutches. Who gets the reflex save against the grease spell? Does the target of the spell, your grappled friend, who would likely voluntarily fail the saving throw to get greased up and have a +10 bonus to escape the grapple? Or does the forst giant get the saving throw who is wielding your friend like a weapon?
** spoiler omitted **...
I would say the Frost Giant. The PC in question is being used like a weapon so their movement is largely controlled by the Giant. Therefore if the Giant would get to make the save to Grease his Club (should he be wielding one), then he should get to make the save when his 'club' is a sentient squishy thing.
I would say the Frost Giant. The PC in question is being used like a weapon so their movement is largely controlled by the Giant. Therefore if the Giant would get to make the save to Grease his Club (should he be wielding one), then he should get to make the save when his 'club' is a sentient squishy thing.I have a rather weird question regarding the grease spell that actually came up in play today. Consider a situation where your party is up against a rather large creature that can grapple, such as a frost giant. Imagine that frost giant grappled one of your party members and then began to wield the party member as an improvised weapon against the rest of the party. Imagine then that the magic user of your party cast grease on the grappled party member (or at least his armor) to help that party member escape the giant's clutches. Who gets the reflex save against the grease spell? Does the target of the spell, your grappled friend, who would likely voluntarily fail the saving throw to get greased up and have a +10 bonus to escape the grapple? Or does the forst giant get the saving throw who is wielding your friend like a weapon?
** spoiler omitted **...
Unless your party member is dead he is not an object he is grappled. Anything cast at or on him or his equipment affect him and he makes the save. In this case, assuming the wizard warned him of the spell he should fail the save and get the +10 to escape artist. He does however still gain all the penalties of being greased.
A similar situation came up when a creature that had swallowed a PC was polymorphed. He is not absorbed into the creature, beyond the unknown implications of this, nowhere does the spell say other creatures are absorbed.
As uncool as it sounds, I'm afraid there's no way the frost giant could use your party member as a "normal" weapon, for several reasons.
First of all, the description of the 'damage' grapple action explicitly says you can only damage the target of your grapple.
Also, unless the giant has the feat 'greater grapple', he spends a standard action to maintain the grapple and do this damage. With 'greater grapple' he would still have a standard action left. However, for this standard action he could not use both his hands because of the 'grappled' condition both grapplers have. This would be different if the giant also had the 'grab' ability, which allows him to grapple without gaining the 'grappled' condition.
So if the giant has the 'grab' ability and the 'greater grapple' feat, he could use one hand to maintain the grapple and would have the other hand free to attack with a (real) weapon.
The only conceivable way he could use the party member to deal damage to other party members is with the 'snatch' feat (from the Bestiary). This feat lets the snatcher fling the creature it is grappling in a certain direction. The problem is that the flight distance is random (1d6*10 feet). If by chance the flung party member lands on another one, it would be treated as a falling object. On top of that the frost giant can't even be given the 'snatch' feat, because he is not "huge or larger" and he does not have a 'claw' or 'bite' attack.
|
The giant gets no save. He would if the spell were being cast at his feet to make him fall, but it isn't. It's being cast on the thing he's wielding, which happens to be a character.
I would not allow a save. If there has to be a save, it belongs to the target of the spell, which is not the giant in this case. It is the hapless adventurer who is beginning a new and exciting career as a melee weapon.
Actually, after thinking about it, I have to say that, if the flung player landed on another player, it wouldn't be treated as a falling object (since that only accounts for gravity and here the player is thrown).
Instead, I would say that both the player that is hit and the thrown player take the same amount of damage as specified by the 'snatch' feat (1d6*1d6). This is (ironically) supported by the 'falling objects' rule (p.443), that says that both objects (the falling one and the hit one) take the same damage.
Concerning your grease spell, it is definitely the party member being grappled that has to voluntarily fail his save. The other interpretation doesn't work, since the party member is NOT a weapon and cannot be used that way.