| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ. |
I've noticed a theme of wondrous items in the APG, namely the
- necklace of ki serenity
- robes of arcane heritage
- silver smite bracelet
I would like to know if the necklace of ki serenity gives monk early access to all ki-pool related powers, or just the ones with "ki pool" in the name? From RAW I just cannot say for certain; albeit circumstantial evidence suggest that it applies to all ki related abilities: the robes essentially do just that for sorcerers. Similarly, the bracelet is potent on a paladin. Given that the items have a similar mechanic working for them (and the same cost-level), am I right in thinking that monks get all ki-point related abilities earlier (including wholeness of body, abundant step and empty body)?
Thanks :)
Does it say that it increases your effective level for related abilities that use the Ki Pool? Or does it just raise the level of the Ki Pool ability itself?
Because "Ki Pool" is a specific ability that has level dependent effects (bonus points, dr bypassing, etc). Just increasing your level in that ability will do stuff, but not give access to other abilities (ki pool doesn't grant access to other abilities itself).
What's the exact wording for the item say?
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
The wearer gains a +4 bonus to his effective level when determining the size of his ki pool and the level-based effects of his ki pool ability (such as bypassing damage reduction).
The problem here is that it is a bit ambivalent about what exactly constitutes a ki pool ability. Compare with the robes of arcane heritage:
The wearer treats her sorcerer level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of determining what bloodline powers she can use and their effects.
In other words, a sorcerer can get her capstone ability at level 16.
Both the robes and the necklace cost 16000gp and have very similar theme/wording. This leads me to believe the RAI of the necklace is to include access to ki pool related abilities rather than just the ones that are named "ki pool". In support, from Core:
A monk gains additional powers that consume points from his ki pool as he gains levels.
One more note:
and the level-based effect*s* of his ki pool ability (such as bypassing damage reduction)
If you ignore bypassing damage reduction, there are no other effects - other than abilities that make use of the ki pool. I'll consider this additional significant evidence to include all class abilities that make use of the ki pool.
...well, strictly speaking "wholeness of body" heals 4 extra hp and "abundant step" has a slightly higher range.
LoreKeeper lights two candles of Incense of James Summoning, hoping against hope.
One more note:
and the level-based effect*s* of his ki pool ability (such as bypassing damage reduction)If you ignore bypassing damage reduction, there are no other effects - other than abilities that make use of the ki pool. I'll consider this additional significant evidence to include all class abilities that make use of the ki pool.
...well, strictly speaking "wholeness of body" heals 4 extra hp and "abundant step" has a slightly higher range.
I'm pretty sure it gives him his level based ki-pool abilities and some extra ki points. Abundant step is not a ki pool ability, nor is wholeness of body. Those abilities are their own abilities.
A sorceror's robe doesn't grant them extra bloodline feats or bloodline spells, and a fighter's sash doesn't grant the fighter bonus feats. It does what it says it does, in my opinion.
The robe *does* grant blood line abilities though. Including the sorcerer capstone. I mean, I don't think the necklace gives monk feats either - obviously - but its open whether ki-pool related powers are included or not.
Paying 16000 for 2 ki points and earlier access to "lawful" and "adamtine" bypassing strikes is not really all that. It would be fair at 4000 like the fighter's sash.
On the other hand, paying 16000 to get access to all your cool bloodline abilities 4 levels earlier is the bomb and totally worth it. From a balance point of view - either the robe needs to be toned down, or the necklace up.
Abundant step is not a ki pool ability, nor is wholeness of body. Those abilities are their own abilities.
No they are not. They are Ki Poolabilities.
page 59:A monk gains additional powers that consume points from his ki pool as he gains levels.
Both Abundant step and Wholeness of body are based on the Ki Pool.
Now Zark, I fully agree with you - but unfortunately the debate isn't entirely cut and dried. Some (and by some I mean the DontLetTheMonkBecomeOverpowered Brigade) would argue that only abilities labeled "ki pool" count. That is why I've made the thread to get some consensus (or better yet, a word of authority).
Given the feedback up to now, let's say that currently the score is 1 : 1.
RAW, I would have to go with no early access to Wholeness of Body and Abundant Step. However, if we're going to walk the dark RAI path, the following should also be considered:
The item has a cost of 16000 gp. Reasonably, PCs should only start seeing items of this cost at about level 8 or 9. A single-classed monk already has Wholeness of Body by this time.
The item also takes the neck slot - a rather prized slot, in my opinion, due to the sheer number of amulet and necklace options available, especially for monks.
Taking this into account, I see no issue with allowing the monk to heal a bit more HP with a Wholeness of Body use or allowing a multiclassed monk access to WoB early.
Abundant Step is another issue. However, considering the cost of the necklace, limitations on AS and maybe a comparison to an 8th level Sorcerers's spell selection and the availability of the Robes of Arcane Heritage, I don't think it would be game-breaking to allow early access to AS.
From the verbiage ("ki pool ability" is pretty specific), I think the RAW doesn't allow it.
However, I propose that it should be change so that the RAW either does allow it, or the item is made to be somewhat cheaper.
From the verbiage ("ki pool ability" is pretty specific), I think the RAW doesn't allow it.
However, I propose that it should be change so that the RAW either does allow it, or the item is made to be somewhat cheaper.
Calling things "ki pool (wholeness of body)" has two problems: space issue, and more importantly, it changes verbiage significantly from 3.5. It is clear that Paizo did not try to radically change things, but enhance things; renaming things like wholeness of body doesn't help in this case. They did a sterling job in general, but unfortunately there is a bit of a gap now in whether things that clearly are part of the set of ki pool abilities mechanically, are also part of the ki pool abilities that the necklace includes.
I draw here on the words from Core: "A monk gains additional powers that consume points from his ki pool as he gains levels." Which I read as including abilities such as wholeness of body into the set of abilities encompassed by the ki pool.
Considering that the Ki Crystal (consumble for 1 ki point) costs a whopping 2000, and this item flat out gives 2 additional ki points it does seem a tad cheap
:P
Then again maybe the Ki Crystal is a wee bit overpriced
Yes... that item is a sore spot in a world marked with few, but occasionally meaningful, editorial slips. :)
Calling things "ki pool (wholeness of body)"
No, no, no. I said the verbiage from the magic item, where it specifically states "ki pool ability" is fairly clear cut. I think the RAW for the magic item should be changed, so that it either includes the other monk abilities, or is cheaper in price.
hmmm - it is not really that clear cut; but I agree that it is easy to read that way - and that it probably should be made more explicit. (Or in some other ways corrected, say price adjustment.)
Then again maybe the Ki Crystal is a wee bit overpriced
By a factor 10 at least.
