How does Telekinesis work on incorporeal creatures?

[Endarire]

Telekinesis can create a sustained force (which seems like a force effect), or perform a combat manuever (which also seems like a force effect).

How do these interact with incorporeal creatures?

[King of Vrock]

TK doesn't have the [force] descriptor so it's not a force effect. As it is a corporeal source it's only 50% effective on incorporeal creatures.

--Vrocky Horror Picture Show

[meatrace]

King of Vrock wrote:

TK doesn't have the [force] descriptor so it's not a force effect. As it is a corporeal source it's only 50% effective on incorporeal creatures.

--Vrocky Horror Picture Show

Wow that's on crack. Clearly that is an oversight. Even the psionic versions of Telekinesis (maneuver esp.) are tagged as Force.

[Mnemaxa]

meatrace wrote:

Wow that's on crack. Clearly that is an oversight. Even the psionic versions of Telekinesis (maneuver esp.) are tagged as Force.

That would be because in Pathfinder, Telekinesis is a transmutation, not an evocation. You're not creating a force effect, you're simply moving things around through magic - no intervening 'force' other than the magic itself, which is not a force effect at all in this case.

[TheLoneCleric]

Mnemaxa wrote:

That would be because in Pathfinder, Telekinesis is a transmutation, not an evocation. You're not creating a force effect, you're simply moving things around through magic - no intervening 'force' other than the magic itself, which is not a force effect at all in this case.

Which if you go back to the older sci-fi origin of the idea is actually how it worked. No TK force fields or other 'object' stuff like what Green Lantern does. It's just moving objects with your mind. Sure it's a bit convoluted, but your just shifting the XYZ with magic in this case.

--for it is not the spoon that bends. You do.

[Spes Magna Mark]

TheLoneCleric wrote:

--for it is not the spoon that bends. You do.

But there is no spoon.

Mark L. Chance | Spes Magna Games

[Kierato]

Spes Magna Mark wrote:

TheLoneCleric wrote:

--for it is not the spoon that bends. You do.

But there is no spoon.

What about the one I use to stir my chocolate milk? ;)

[Charender]

Kierato wrote:

Spes Magna Mark wrote:

TheLoneCleric wrote:

--for it is not the spoon that bends. You do.

But there is no spoon.

What about the one I use to stir my chocolate milk? ;)

Sigh, some people are just not ready to wake up....

[meatrace]

Mnemaxa wrote:

meatrace wrote:

Wow that's on crack. Clearly that is an oversight. Even the psionic versions of Telekinesis (maneuver esp.) are tagged as Force.

That would be because in Pathfinder, Telekinesis is a transmutation, not an evocation. You're not creating a force effect, you're simply moving things around through magic - no intervening 'force' other than the magic itself, which is not a force effect at all in this case.

Well, again, you can't use that argument with psionics really because that's sort of the idea of the whole system; doing stuff with just your mind. And it was still a force effect. There are conjuration spells (mage armor for example) with the force descriptor. The school has little or nothing to do with what descriptors can be applied.