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Hello, everyone.
A question came up recently on my side of the world: How does the Bard8 ability Dirge of Doom interact with the demoralization portion of the Intimidate skill?
Thank you,
-Matt
They don't actually. Demoralize specifically does not stack with any other fear effects, so Dirge of Doom would negate any need to demoralize, unless you wanted to have it last after you switched songs.
They don't actually. Demoralize specifically does not stack with any other fear effects, so Dirge of Doom would negate any need to demoralize, unless you wanted to have it last after you switched songs.
I see no reference to demoralize not stacking with other fear effects. Dirge of Doom does not increase something that is shaken to fear. But it says nothing about something else increasing it once Dirge of Doom has already brought it to shaken. My interpretation is that if you use Demoralize first, then Dirge of Doom will do nothing. But if you use Dirge of Doom first, then Demoralize will increase it to fear. I have yet to see anything to counter this interpretation in multiple near identical discussions.
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They don't actually. Demoralize specifically does not stack with any other fear effects, so Dirge of Doom would negate any need to demoralize, unless you wanted to have it last after you switched songs.I see no reference to demoralize not stacking with other fear effects. Dirge of Doom does not increase something that is shaken to fear. But it says nothing about something else increasing it once Dirge of Doom has already brought it to shaken. My interpretation is that if you use Demoralize first, then Dirge of Doom will do nothing. But if you use Dirge of Doom first, then Demoralize will increase it to fear. I have yet to see anything to counter this interpretation in multiple near identical discussions.
This is exactly how I read it as well, and I've looked pretty hard because this is my "howling skald" build for a Pathfinder Organized Play character I have. It might be iffy with Dirge of Doom, RAW vs RAI, but until I see evidence otherwise, the rules say DoD can't advance a fear level, it doesn't say it can't BE advanced so long as DoD is applied first.
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It seems of would depend on the order of actions. Fear effects stack when they are from different sources. but dirge of doom specifically states that it does not increase it beyond shaken. But if that happens first, then another PC uses intimidate, it should increase it to frightened since intimidate has no restrictions.
**Seems I reiterated stuff already said....oops! **
My take is that they don't stack, regardless of order. But it's certainly ambiguous, IMO.
My take is that they don't stack, regardless of order. But it's certainly ambiguous, IMO.
Looking for the reasoning behind both "sides" here... why would they not stack, exactly?
-Matt
My take is that they don't stack, regardless of order. But it's certainly ambiguous, IMO.Looking for the reasoning behind both "sides" here... why would they not stack, exactly?
-Matt
Because it says: "This performance cannot cause a creature to become frightened or panicked, even if the targets are already shaken from another effect." By my reckoning, the "even if" part is a red herring, in this case (it's meant to strengthen the "cannot cause a creature to become frightened or panicked" clause, not weaken it).
Like I said, I can see the other argument too.
My take is that they don't stack, regardless of order. But it's certainly ambiguous, IMO.Looking for the reasoning behind both "sides" here... why would they not stack, exactly?
-Matt
Because it says: "This performance cannot cause a creature to become frightened or panicked, even if the targets are already shaken from another effect." By my reckoning, the "even if" part is a red herring, in this case (it's meant to strengthen the "cannot cause a creature to become frightened or panicked" clause, not weaken it).
Like I said, I can see the other argument too.
In my interpretation, demoralize is the thing that is causing it to become frightened or panicked, and not the Dirge of Doom. Likewise, I understand your stance.
If Dirge of Doom allowed a save, this clause probably wouldn't be in there.