If I empower an explosive rune (9d6 damage instead of 6d6), does the DC to perception/disable become 30 (for a 5th level spell) or does it remain 28 (the base spell is 3rd).
Also, what are the means for neutralizing the acid from Acid Arrow? Could you use a base (the opposite of an acid), what about a full round action with a waterskin? Is there anything official on this or do I need to houserule something.
Thank you.
Variables associated with spell level are unchanged by empower.
If you want to up the DC of the spell, then you need to use heighten spell.
If I empower an explosive rune (9d6 damage instead of 6d6), does the DC to perception/disable become 30 (for a 5th level spell) or does it remain 28 (the base spell is 3rd).
Also, what are the means for neutralizing the acid from Acid Arrow? Could you use a base (the opposite of an acid), what about a full round action with a waterskin? Is there anything official on this or do I need to houserule something.
Thank you.
First, an Empowered Explosive Runes spell is 6d6 damage, then multiplied by 1.5. Don't roll extra dice (which would get strange if you had a 5d6 spell, because it's hard to roll 7.5d6).
As has already been pointed out, metamagic feats don't change the level of the spell, so an Empowered 3rd level spell is still a 3rd level spell. Heighten Spell is the only exception because it is designed for this very purpose.
As far as neutralizing the acid, that's a good question. I am not aware of an official rule. Nothing is mentioned under the spell, or under "Acid" in the environments section, or under Acid Flask, or anywhere else I thought of to look.
I seem to have a dim distant memory that, way back, I once knew of rules for neutralizing acid. Maybe 2nd edition, or even first.
But for now, in today's Pathfinder, it seems like DM's Judgment Call time, unless I missed something.
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Also, what are the means for neutralizing the acid from Acid Arrow? Could you use a base (the opposite of an acid), what about a full round action with a waterskin? Is there anything official on this or do I need to houserule something.
I would suggest that you not allow neutralizing the acid from acid arrow, if there were a way of avoiding the damage it should be listed in the spell. It's is already fairly weak and making a way to neutralize it's effect just makes it worse. Alternately make a way to neutralize it but make it a little more damaging.
Also, what are the means for neutralizing the acid from Acid Arrow? Could you use a base (the opposite of an acid), what about a full round action with a waterskin? Is there anything official on this or do I need to houserule something.I would suggest that you not allow neutralizing the acid from acid arrow, if there were a way of avoiding the damage it should be listed in the spell. It's is already fairly weak and making a way to neutralize it's effect just makes it worse. Alternately make a way to neutralize it but make it a little more damaging.
Except that the spell says "For every three caster levels you possess, the acid, unless neutralized, lasts for another round (to a maximum of 6 additional rounds at 18th level), dealing another 2d4 points of damage in each round."
Since the spell indicates that it might be neutralized, it's a valid question to ask how to do that, and I can't find any text that tells me how.
Maybe casting a spell that gives protection from acid would do the trick, but really, that isn't "neutralized" (neutralizing sounds like eliminating the acid, while granting protection or immunity means the acid is still there and still not neutralized, and might resume damage if the protection is removed).
I would think that enough water or any kind of counteractive agent (a base, maybe some alchemical antacid compound), or maybe even burning it off (although the neutralization might be worse than the acid). None of that is RAW, however.
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Also, what are the means for neutralizing the acid from Acid Arrow? Could you use a base (the opposite of an acid), what about a full round action with a waterskin? Is there anything official on this or do I need to houserule something.I would suggest that you not allow neutralizing the acid from acid arrow, if there were a way of avoiding the damage it should be listed in the spell. It's is already fairly weak and making a way to neutralize it's effect just makes it worse. Alternately make a way to neutralize it but make it a little more damaging.Except that the spell says "For every three caster levels you possess, the acid, unless neutralized, lasts for another round (to a maximum of 6 additional rounds at 18th level), dealing another 2d4 points of damage in each round."
Since the spell indicates that it might be neutralized, it's a valid question to ask how to do that, and I can't find any text that tells me how.
Gah... shows what I get for going from memory. Please ignore.
Means Acid Arrow sucks even more...
Maybe prestidigitation to extract the acid, it's exactly the sort of thing the cantrip should be good at.
Thanks for the responses. All that really helped.
New question. Circle of Death does not affect anyone of 9 or more hit dice. What if a 12th level character gets 4 negative levels? He'd count as 8th level for spellcasting, but what about spell effects?
Means Acid Arrow sucks even more...
Maybe prestidigitation to extract the acid, it's exactly the sort of thing the cantrip should be good at.
Acid Arrow is very good with extend spell, but not if a cantrip can counter it. Maybe if a 2nd level spell did it then that would be fine, or at least a standard action or two.
Acid Arrow is very good with extend spell, but not if a cantrip can counter it. Maybe if a 2nd level spell did it then that would be fine, or at least a standard action or two.Means Acid Arrow sucks even more...
Maybe prestidigitation to extract the acid, it's exactly the sort of thing the cantrip should be good at.
Maybe. You just got the BBEG to waste an entire round removing the acid arrow no? that is a lot better than him blasting you and your friends.
Maybe. You just got the BBEG to waste an entire round removing the acid arrow no? that is a lot better than him blasting you and your friends.Acid Arrow is very good with extend spell, but not if a cantrip can counter it. Maybe if a 2nd level spell did it then that would be fine, or at least a standard action or two.Means Acid Arrow sucks even more...
Maybe prestidigitation to extract the acid, it's exactly the sort of thing the cantrip should be good at.
Not only did you get him to waste a round, you also did damage, and if he is neutralizing that acid with magic then he's got to roll a concentration check due to the continuous damage from the spell meaning he might waste another round (and a spell slot) trying to get the poison off.
That's actually what I generally use Acid Arrow for -- forcing spell casters to make concentration checks to cast their spells. Of course this is a bit more effective now in pathfinder than it was in 3.5
Maybe prestidigitation to extract the acid, it's exactly the sort of thing the cantrip should be good at.
I would personally dislike seeing an at-will cantrip be able to completely neutralize most of the damage of a 2nd level spell.
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Acid Arrow is very good with extend spell, but not if a cantrip can counter it. Maybe if a 2nd level spell did it then that would be fine, or at least a standard action or two.Means Acid Arrow sucks even more...
Maybe prestidigitation to extract the acid, it's exactly the sort of thing the cantrip should be good at.
I guess if you have really long encounters against spellcasters sure. If it can be neutralized then it takes away even that. In my experience encounters don't last that long often.
Maybe prestidigitation to extract the acid, it's exactly the sort of thing the cantrip should be good at.I would personally dislike seeing an at-will cantrip be able to completely neutralize most of the damage of a 2nd level spell.
You would rather they neutralized it by pouring water on it?
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Maybe prestidigitation to extract the acid, it's exactly the sort of thing the cantrip should be good at.I would personally dislike seeing an at-will cantrip be able to completely neutralize most of the damage of a 2nd level spell.
Me too, I prefer the idea that it can't be neutralized. I'm just pointing out that separating a mundane chemical (conjured acid) seems like exactly the sort of thing prestidigitation would be good at.
Thanks for the responses. All that really helped.
New question. Circle of Death does not affect anyone of 9 or more hit dice. What if a 12th level character gets 4 negative levels? He'd count as 8th level for spellcasting, but what about spell effects?
Interesting question.
The RAW says that negative levels count as reducing your level for "all level-dependent variables" and lists caster level as one example. So, is this one of those cases where it counts or not?
Likewise, the Sleep spell only affects up to 4th level characters, so can you drain them down to 4th level then put them to sleep? I'm sure there are lots of other spells and abilities where a similar question could be asked.
I haven't found a definitive example, but my interpretation would be that Sleep and Circle of Death and other similar spells/effects have "variable" results based on the target's level. Negative levels count as reducing the target's level for "level-dependent variables", so this seems to apply. Me, I would say if you get Enervated to (effectively) 8th level and then hit with a Circle of Death, it seems like it should work.
In practice, that may be overpowered - it seems like an awfully lethal spell combo. But we're talking a fairly high-level spell, so maybe it should be lethal. It's no worse than Flesh to Stone followed by Rock to Mud then slapped with a reversed Create Water and then a Gust of Wind to blow away the dry dust that used to be you. (Although, I think in Pathfinder you have to use Control Water to dry up the mud - Create Water isn't reversible anymore).
It's no worse than Flesh to Stone followed by Rock to Mud then slapped with a reversed Create Water and then a Gust of Wind to blow away the dry dust that used to be you. (Although, I think in Pathfinder you have to use Control Water to dry up the mud - Create Water isn't reversible anymore).
That sounds fun!
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Thanks for the responses. All that really helped.
New question. Circle of Death does not affect anyone of 9 or more hit dice. What if a 12th level character gets 4 negative levels? He'd count as 8th level for spellcasting, but what about spell effects?
The wording on negative levels seems deliberately engineered to avoid changing hit dice so I would say no.
For each negative level a creature has, it takes a cumulative –1 penalty on all ability checks, attack rolls, combat maneuver checks, Combat Maneuver Defense, saving throws, and skill checks. In addition, the creature reduces its current and total hit points by 5 for each negative level it possesses. The creature is also treated as one level lower for the purpose of level-dependent variables (such as spellcasting) for each negative level possessed.
Basically it reduces almost all level dependent variables except Hit Dice so I think you can fairly safely assume Hit Dice are not affected.
I think you can fairly safely assume
"Fairly safely"? Really?
Really.I think you can fairly safely assume"Fairly safely"? Really?
Nice.
It's the whole "treated as one level lower" thing that makes me question. If a 5th level fighter got two neg levels then he'd lose weapon spec right? Kinda like having Str reduced to 12 would cost him power attack. The idea seems consistent with what's already been established and as far as I can tell this question has never come up before (which surprises me).
So how dangerous of an idea is this?
It's the whole "treated as one level lower" thing that makes me question. If a 5th level fighter got two neg levels then he'd lose weapon spec right? Kinda like having Str reduced to 12 would cost him power attack. The idea seems consistent with what's already been established and as far as I can tell this question has never come up before (which surprises me).
So how dangerous of an idea is this?
Less Dangerous, more messy.
The point of the PF changes to negative levels is to simplify bookkeeping.
I still remember in 3.0. Our wizard got 2 negative levels, it took 20 minutes to recalculate everything.
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It's the whole "treated as one level lower" thing that makes me question. If a 5th level fighter got two neg levels then he'd lose weapon spec right? Kinda like having Str reduced to 12 would cost him power attack. The idea seems consistent with what's already been established and as far as I can tell this question has never come up before (which surprises me).
So how dangerous of an idea is this?
No, absolutely not. The character is not losing a level.
For each negative level a creature has, it takes a cumulative –1 penalty on all ability checks, attack rolls, combat maneuver checks, Combat Maneuver Defense, saving throws, and skill checks. In addition, the creature reduces its current and total hit points by 5 for each negative level it possesses. The creature is also treated as one level lower for the purpose of level-dependent variables (such as spellcasting) for each negative level possessed. Spellcasters do not lose any prepared spells or slots as a result of negative levels. If a creature's negative levels equal or exceed its total Hit Dice, it dies.
You are not treated as a level lower, except for the purpose of level dependent variables. Weapon specialization is a pre-req not a variable at all. Spellcasting, channeling, sneak attack dice, spell like abilities with level dependent durations, are all effected, basically any ability that says the effect is "XXXX per XXX levels". For all other purposes you are the same level, same hit dice.
The whole point of this change was to eliminate the whole bit about rewriting character sheets when you get energy drained.