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Let's say there's a party with a necromancer. This party is being haunted by the rather shifty ghost of an evil wizard (who's spellbook was taken by said party necromancer). Every time the ghost shows up, the necromancer tries to control the ghost via spells or the control undead feat, with no success to date.
I'm thinking of having the ghost "pretend to be controlled" the next time such an attempt fails. Could this happen, or does a caster automatically know if an undead is under his control?
Let's say there's a party with a necromancer. This party is being haunted by the rather shifty ghost of an evil wizard (who's spellbook was taken by said party necromancer). Every time the ghost shows up, the necromancer tries to control the ghost via spells or the control undead feat, with no success to date.
I'm thinking of having the ghost "pretend to be controlled" the next time such an attempt fails. Could this happen, or does a caster automatically know if an undead is under his control?
Bluff check?
FYI, I remember reading that in a forgotten realms book, so I think it's possible.
I'd think the necromancer would know he failed to control any creature he tried to control with a spell. Same for using command undead. Otherwise, you'd never know how many hit dice you had under your control and that'd be really annoying.
The larger question is could anyone Bluff being controlled by any of the Charm, Hold, Dominate, Command type spells. I would lean towards 'No', but I'd like to hear other opinions.
No. Any non-area target effects that don't have an obvious visible indicator, magically impart upon the caster whether or not the target made its save or not.
Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack.
Note that you be able make a Bluff check to fool the caster if the spell effects you for some other reason, such as when it fails to overcome your spell resistance.
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There was a really cool Thread like this about 3 years ago -- it was about an Undead being Turned.
A DM had said he was gonna have his vampire Dimension Door to a hidden spot somewhere behind the PCs after the Cleric attempted to Turn him. The PCs would think they had successfully Turned the vampire only to be caught flat footed a moment later.
Some Paizonians said a Bluff vs Sense Motive. The only problem there is, if you ask your Cleric to roll a Sense Motive he's gonna know something's up -- of course, it was said, the DM could always make the roll. But that's just, for some gamers, really corney: You Turn the vampire and then he's back because, the DM says, you rolled a Sense Motive and failed.
Some Paizonians said the Cleric should roll a Wisdom Check (or the like), as if the Cleric would have a feeling of something being "off" as he did his Turn attempt. The only problem here is coming up with a viable DC, depending on what: the HD of the Undead?, the CR of the Undead?, the CHA of the Undead?
This is what I did when I included in my game -- cuz it's just too awesome an idea not to burgle -- I told the Cleric, in a note to the Player, that something was kinda weird about the Turn attempt. The Player couldn't really articulate it to the other Players, try as he may. When my Mummy Lord hit the PCs a few minutes later, they knew what was up. The problem I didn't forsee is that, if you do it that way you can never do it again. The PCs will know instantly if an Undead does it again. And changing the mechanic is inconsistent DMing.
No. Any non-area target effects that don't have an obvious visible indicator, magically impart upon the caster whether or not the target made its save or not.
Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack.Note that you be able make a Bluff check to fool the caster if the spell effects you for some other reason, such as when it fails to overcome your spell resistance.
Protection from Evil/Good.
I know in the past my group has used it to allow bluff checks against a Mind Flayer's dominate, and it was awesome. I vote for allowing it because it is awesome.And yes, I know Mind Flayers have an obsurd sense motive. He sill succeeded the bluff somehow.
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Hm. By the rules bluffing to pretend to be controlled when you're not wouldn't work (too bad, I think that'd make for great story) because the caster knows when you save. Next question - could a character with slippery mind that makes the second save bluff as if they're still controlled? They failed their initial save - it'd be cool if the second one doesn't "register" either way with a caster. :D