try http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/variantMagic.htm
Hey look, a mana system.
http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Mana-Based_Spellcasting_%283.5e_Variant_Rule %29
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Without going too much into it because... well I really don't feel like having this conversation again, let alone in text I will say the following.
Non vancian systems have been constructed before pathfinder was even a spec in its fathers eye. I've played with a number of them. They promote min/maxing and the munchin mindset. They are bad for games, simply due to the massive powercreep they cause towards spellcasters.
You are welcome to try them out yourself but keep this last bit in mind. There is a reason there are no rules for this kind of thing in PFC.
What I'm referring to is slightly different.
With that system you can memorize say magic missile once and cast it as many times as you have spell points.
What I'm proposing is spending the spell points when you memorize, so if you want to cast magic missile 3 times, then you would prepare it 3 times and spend the points at the time of preparation.
The big change from normal Vancian casting is you can choose to say prepare an additional 2nd level spell instead of 3 first level spells, or 3 additional 1st level spells instead of 1 of your 2nd level spells. (note, the conversion rate in this example is based on the spell point cost from the link)
As I said, it is a hybrid of the two systems.
Interesting. I'd suggest using more points for higher level spells. Fewer higher level spells (than normal) vs. more lower level spells (than normal) memorizable with the advantage being flexibility. Maybe square the level of the spell for cost. This gives a wizard a max of 1-2 of his highest level spells, or, of course, he can memorize a ton of low level spells. His call. That makes the high level stuff very costly to memorize, the bonus being tons of lower level spells available. I'm not sure how this "balances out", but it does eliminate the obvious power creep in using straight spell level for cost.
As examples, a 5th level wizard casts 10 levels of spells (3 first, 2 second, 1 third, 10 levels total). Straight casting would allow him to cast 3 3rd level spells (and one first) or 10 first level (or some combination). Squaring the level for cost would allow him to cast one 3rd level (and one first) or (again) 10 first (or 2 second and 2 first -- or some other combo). If he uses his highest level stuff he pretty much burns out. If he doesn't he's an arsenal of low level stuff. His pick.
I actually ran a few numbers today.
A 20th level wizard gets a base of 4 spells per level for a total of 36 spells per day.
The numbers I used are based on giving the caster enough points to prepare those same 4 spells per level at 20th level.
The following is the maximum number of spells possible if all spells were of the same level.
At point cost = spell level:
1-180 2-90 3-60 4-45 5-36 6-30 7-25 8-22 9-20
Using the progression from the d20srd spell point system (point cost = level at which a wizard gains access to that spell level):
1-324 2-108 3-64 4-46 5-36 6-29 7-24 8-21 9-19
Using point cost = spell level squared:
1-1140 2-285 3-126 4-71 5-45 6-31 7-23 8-17 9-14
Increasing the rate at which the cost increases inflates the number of lower level spells that can be cast more rapidly than it decreases the maximum number of high level spells if the current spells per day is used as a baseline. If you want to still be able to cast an n spells per level baseline mix, then increasing rate of point cost increase becomes more unbalancing, not less as it inflates the point pool.
I'm not trying to allow the wizard to memorize the 4 spells per level he could in RAW. Just proposing a system that would lower the high level spell potential in return for increasing the low level spells and giving the wizard some flexibility.
The way I had it a 20th level wizard has 180 points. The total of spell levels at 4 per level times the spell levels (1-9) in the RAW. A ninth level spell cost 81 (9 squared) points. A wizard at level 20 could cast 2 9th level spells (with 18 points left). Or he could cast 180 first level spells. So he can cast half the 9th level spells he could in RAW or 5 times as many total spells as he could in RAW if he just wants first level spells.
If you give bonus points for intelligence based on the RAW bonus spells that would increase the spells he could cast of course.
*edit* I am not saying the large number of low level spells couldn't be abused by players btw. The little swine are endlessly inventive :) That arguement came up with unlimited cantrips in PFRPG and I could certainly see the potential abuse in that. If I were actually developing a spell point system for my own use I would limit cantrips as well. I have one based on a variable cost by spell level, but it's spontaneous casting and I'm still playing around with it.
*edit 2* Hmmm... I would suggest a couple of other things too. I'd add 1 point per extra damage die in spells like fireball. A 10hd fireball would cost 14 points (9 for third level, and 1 for each die over the basic 5). A magic missile with 5 missiles would cost 5 (1 base for a first level spell plus 1 per extra missile). You could allow these type spells to be memorized at lower damage to save spell points.
Maybe give 5 cantrips per point or something like that... Also, I would think a point based recharge system for magic items that have charges (with points per casting based on the level / damage dice in something like a wand of fireballs) would be in order. And there could be magic items that stored points... maybe human sacrifice for bad guys (hp = spell points)... all kinds of interesting goodies.
Damn. Now I'm going to be ticking over the possibilities for days...
*edit 3* Arghh! also feats allowing magic users to pool points for casting spells... *sigh*. So much goodness, so much work...
Why not just use a complete spell building system?
And did anyone check out that mana system I posted? Is it not good? I thought it was good ><
The way which you phrased that is a bit confusing to me.
Level 4 Spell Slot may Hold
Two 3rd Level?
Three 2nd Level?
Four 1st level?
or Five 0 level?
Is that what you're saying?
Isn't doing spells that way actually making the wizard MORE powerful then if you were to do a spell point system using spell levels as points?
I mean
Level 4 = two 3rd level?
when the point system is = one 3rd level, and one 1st level.
Or are you saying that you can't trade backwards. As in, you can use a lvl 9 spell for 9 first levels? But you CAN'T trade lower spell levels to make up a higher spell level. Thus, no trading 9 first levels for a lvl 9 spell?
Why not just use a complete spell building system?
And did anyone check out that mana system I posted? Is it not good? I thought it was good ><
A spell building system would require a complete re-write of the entire existing body of spells. I assume you mean charging for duration, range, damage, effects etc. and designing spells?
A more conventional system can use the standard spells. As for the Mana system you linked, same thing in reverse really. That's fine, but it's not any real improvement over a system where you get more points. More points and using less as you go up are equivalent. Maybe less book keeping. I noticed with the "strain / mana" cost chart low level spells cost 0. I'm not sure how that is better than them not costing a lot. I notice high level casters in that system get free third level spells. Free fireballs and lightening bolts. Even for a 19+ level character I'm not sure that's a good idea.
I've looked over similar systems (increasing skill = lower cost) and found the book keeping in an accumulated point system gives you more flexibility.
There are numerous other ways to do it. I wrote up a system once where each magical power was described as an arcane "muscle". Each time you used it it might wear out and require rest or even damage itself (with an increasing possibility of this happening if you kept casting it). It was a nice exercise in imaginative design but not too practical without a total rebuild (I was working off the magic system in the old Empire of the Petal Throne rules from TSR - 1975 where a lot of the spells were usable x number of times a day).
You have a grasp on the tenets of arcane magic and can utilize it at the most basic level.
Prerequisite: Int or Cha 10
Benefit: You gain the Detect Magic cantrip plus three more cantrips of your choice from the sorcerer/wizard list and you gain a pool of spell energy equal to your hit dice +3. Whenever you gain another hit die (such as when you gain a class level) you gain an additional point of spell energy. In order to cast a cantrip the character must expend one point of spell energy.
The character’s effective caster level is first. For every additional point of spell energy expended in the casting of a cantrip, the character’s effective caster level is increased by +1. Your caster level for a cantrip cannot exceed your character level.
Casting a cantrip requires the expenditure of one point of spell energy.
Special: Rogues may select Arcane Adept as one of their rogue talents and the caster level for their cantrips is equal to their rogue level (they never need to expend additional spell energy to increase their effective caster level).
This is what I've done for Sarunia. Sorcerers & Wizards don't pick or prepare their cantrips; they know every single one and can cast them on the fly just by expending spell energy. Granted, spellcasters get more spell energy than those that take the feat.
try http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/variantMagic.htmLinked that for you.
Bless your thoughty li'l heart!
Without going too much into it because... well I really don't feel like having this conversation again, let alone in text I will say the following.
Non vancian systems have been constructed before pathfinder was even a spec in its fathers eye. I've played with a number of them. They promote min/maxing and the munchin mindset. They are bad for games, simply due to the massive powercreep they cause towards spellcasters.
You are welcome to try them out yourself but keep this last bit in mind. There is a reason there are no rules for this kind of thing in PFC.
Please take the time to read the HypertextD20 system before judging it. It allows versatility without the power creep you fear. It avoids the sledgehammer style of the 'Vancian' system without weird increases in power. My players hated that it 'weakened' casters until the versatility aspect caught up.
I would say keep the spells per day but allow you to give up a spell slot to prepare a number of spell levels equal to the level of the spell sacrificed -1 (Sacrifice a 4th lv spell slot to prepare 3 lv.s worth of spells). Also you can sacrifice a number of lower level spell slots to prepare a higher level spell (combined level of the spells sacrificed = level of the spell prepared + 1 or sacrifice 4 spell slots to prepare a 3rd level spell).
Actually, a pretty good hybrid i´ve found, is the system used on "your most famous RPG" - Online (DDO.com)
It uses a mixture of vancian system and spell points, and actually a fairly good way to use metamagic on that system.-
Each spell cost around 10 sp/level.-
Chars get spellpoint x class (i.e: Wiz and clr, get almost the same value, sorc/fav. soul gets more, paladins/rangers just a few.)
Metamagic, just increases the cost of such spells.-
You just choose X spells per day (As per vancian system) and you can cast them via your spellpoints.-
I´ll update this with the proper mechanics in a few hours when i´m back from work.-