So a year or so back my gaming group switch our system from 3.5 to hackmaster. We have since switched back to 3.5 but one of the only things I liked about the hackmaster system was the quirks and flaws character creation system, where you roll your stats 3d6 in order then you can choose to take a number (1-9) of randomly generated (though multiple tables) quirks and flaws (every thing from bad personal hygene to loosing an arm to food allergies) and each quirk and flaw was worth "building points" you could use to raise your characters stats but each quirk and flaw had a negative gameplay effect.
I really liked this system because it made characters more interesting kind of forced role playing (something you have to do in my group) IE if you rolled and got Mute you needed to bring a chalk board to game to write what your character wanted to say..
anyway question is has anyone heard of anything in the 3.x (or PFRPG) that does this or something similar?
So a year or so back my gaming group switch our system from 3.5 to hackmaster. We have since switched back to 3.5 but one of the only things I liked about the hackmaster system was the quirks and flaws character creation system, where you roll your stats 3d6 in order then you can choose to take a number (1-9) of randomly generated (though multiple tables) quirks and flaws (every thing from bad personal hygene to loosing an arm to food allergies) and each quirk and flaw was worth "building points" you could use to raise your characters stats but each quirk and flaw had a negative gameplay effect.
I really liked this system because it made characters more interesting kind of forced role playing (something you have to do in my group) IE if you rolled and got Mute you needed to bring a chalk board to game to write what your character wanted to say..
anyway question is has anyone heard of anything in the 3.x (or PFRPG) that does this or something similar?
Flaws in Unearthed Arcana? (3.5)
DM could okay up to two of them, and each got you a bonus feat.
yes unearthed arcanna is your best bet but in the source book Forge of War they have eberron flaws like battle scar that my DM let us convert to feats.
Warning it's real easy to take the -2 to all attack rolls as a wizard for a free feat cause you are almost never in melee so be careful if you don't want your players to be munchkin's on crack.
I use the flaws from UA quite a bit, DM permitting. It is easy to munchkin out a character, but I try to take appropriate flaws, not just number-effective ones. For example, if I am building a beefy melee type, I will usually take the -2 Ranged Attacks penalty, since my character focused so much on melee combat, he lagged on his ranged skills to compensate, and vice-versa. I take the -6 initiative one for character's who are big and slow, or prefer to wait and see what their enemy does first.
That -2 can become pretty irrelevant later in the game when characters are tossing +20's on their attack rolls though, so A DM should should really weigh how appropriate to their setting these are.
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The problem with flaws/virtues systems is that they inevitably result in players piling up irrelevant flaws eg: "cannot hold misteltoe in his right hand while crossing running water" to compensate kick-ass virtues.
I'm very fond of a comment from Champions on this subject.
<paraphrased>
A disadvantage that has no net effect is worth just that - zero.
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The problem with flaws/virtues systems is that they inevitably result in players piling up irrelevant flaws eg: "cannot hold misteltoe in his right hand while crossing running water" to compensate kick-ass virtues.
This has been my experience as well. Players tended to take flaws that were inconsequential, or situational at worst, in exchange for virtues that were too good.
I prefer a system where each choice has a built in pro/con. For example, a single flaw/virtue grants a thematic +1 to one skill and a -1 to another. Since they're tied together in the same flaw/virtue, a player can't get the bonus without also getting the penalty. I also find randomly generated flaw/virtues acceptable (though they can result in some wonky outcomes).
-Skeld
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In addition to the 3.5 Unearthed Arcana Flaws (for a feat), are the Traits. They are more balanced and make more sense than the Flaws. You get a small bonus on one thing and a small negative on an appropriate other thing.
Example Traits:
Aggressive: +2 initiative, -1 AC
Brawler: +1 unarmed attacks and grapple (3.5), -1 all other attack rolls. doesn't apply to natural weapons.
Far-sighted +1 spot, -1 search
Cautious: +1 dodge AC, -1 saves to avoid fear, with stipulation of not applying to characters with fear immunity, with paladins eventually losing the benefit.
Reckless: +1 damage to melee, -1 melee attack rolls
Example Flaws:
Pathetic: -2 ability score, cannot take if total of ability mods is 8 or higher
Feeble: -2 penalty to STR, DEX, and CON ability checks and skill checks
Weak Will: -3 will saves
One of the best treatments of this topic I ever saw for d20 was The Book of Distinctions and Drawbacks from Cryptosnark Games. The publisher went out of business, but that PDF is a thorough set of rules covering everything from flaws to advantages to random background generation. The author is up-front in noting that a GM must take care with flaws, and only allow the more RP-related ones with players that will actually use them properly.