I’m currently running a Pathfinder game on Saturdays and I have said I would allow some material from 3.x to be updated to Pathfinder, subject to approval of course. One player already took advantage of that by bringing in a Dragonfire Adept from the Dragon Magic book. This isn’t about that conversion, although anyone who wants to see the changes I made I’ll happily post or email it.
This thread is about another player. One of the players (who is currently playing a monk) asked if there were any good ninja classes. Now you can play a really good ninja by just re-skinning the rogue. If you really want to take 1 level of fighter so you are visibly competent using any martial weapon and all armors, plus 1 or 2 levels of monk so you can beat people with your unarmed attacks. Still people want an actual ninja class, and I answered his question honestly. To me in all the 3.0 and 3.5 books I’ve looked in, including OGL books, I’ve only seen 2 ninja-esque classes that were remotely good. In the Rokugan book there is a core ninja class with some very interesting abilities (int bonus to initiative, 5 x con mod to base speed and a dodge pool that can be divided among multiple opponents are the only ones I can remember.) The other is a 3.0 class called the Ninja of the Crescent Moon. It has some of the coolest abilities over, but is BROKEN. Fighter’s BAB, all saves good saves, 1d6 sneak attack at every odd level, monk AC bonus, minimum of two special abilities per level. You can see the problem. Still it is one I used to love some of the concepts from (especially always sneaky).
He liked the sound of it too and wanted to try to get that updated. I told him there were only 1 or 2 people in the world who could teach him. Thanks to a deck of wonderous things managed to find and convince one of those people. So I wanted opinions on my update of the class:
Requirements:
BAB: +6
Feats: Improved Unarmed Attack, Deflect Arrows, Quickdraw
Stealth: 10 ranks
Other: Evasion class feature, must have a teacher
Stats:
HD d8
BAB: rogue’s
Fort: bad
Ref: good
Will: bad
1st: 1d6 Sneak attack, Monk AC, poison use
2nd: Improved Evasion
3rd: 1d6 sneak attack
4th: fast climb
5th: 1d6 sneak attack
6th: Silencing Attack
7th: 1d6 sneak attack
8th: fast sneak
9th: 1d6 sneak attack
10th:Always Sneaky, Blindsense 10ft radius
Sneak attack: As per rogue
Monk AC: AC bonus as a monk of his level or stacks with existing monk levels.
Poison Use: as per assassin
Improved Evasion: as per rogue
Fast Climb: the character is an expert at climbing quickly and carefully. He can climb at one-half normal speed without taking a -5 penalty and may always take 10 on climb checks. He may choose to take a -10 penalty to climb at his normal movement speed. Further he does not lose his dexterity bonus to AC while climbing.
Silencing Attack: When making a sneak attack the rogue may attempt to silence his target. The target is allowed a fort save DC 10 + class level + int. The effect lasts for 1 round.
Fast Sneak: You can move at your full move while using stealth without taking a penalty, and you are not penalized for hiding quickly when observers are distracted. You may take a -20 penalty to run while sneaking.
Blindsense: You are attuned to your surroundings and able to detect the slightest changes in them. This provides you Blindsense in a 10ft radius.
Always Sneaky: You are considered to be taking 10 on sneak at all times unless you specifically state otherwise. If an opponent is distracted or unable to see you at any time they must roll again to locate you. You can hide even if you have no cover or concealment of any kind, but this is at a -20 penalty. The penalty for taking a sniping shot is reduced to -10.
I took away most of the weird stuff (like being able to hypnotize people with complicated hand gestures or being able to ethereal jaunt).
Let me know what you all think. Is it too powerful? Not powerful enough? Any abilities it seems like they should have?
Oh, and all abilities are extrodinary abilities.
There is a actual ninja base class in the complete adventurer 3.5 book. Its like a rogue who cant sneak attack when flanking but has slightly different class skills and some decent class abilities.
There is a actual ninja base class in the complete adventurer 3.5 book. Its like a rogue who cant sneak attack when flanking but has slightly different class skills and some decent class abilities.
He did state that he had looked in several sources, including OGL books. That very statement implies that he has already looked in WoTC splats. I'm not trying to start a flamewar, but your comment was basically unhelpful.
As to the OP, I think your class is actually rather below par. Here is why (assuming using Pathfinder system):
Rogue BaB, one good save, d8 HD. No better than a rogue, below a monk, which are the two classes we should be comparing this to.
BaB +6 requirement means a 6th level fighter can qualify, but would need Evasion still. Monks and rogues would need to be 8th for BaB purposes. However, 10 ranks of a skill requires 10th level, regardless of class. Skill ranks is a good way to set a "minimum" on when you can qualify for a class, but 10 basically means this is an "Endgame" PRC, and as such it should be a little more rewarding to those who have stuck it out long enough to join.
As for class abilities, on a quick glance it falls perhaps even, but likely below, the assasin.
My overall comments: either bump up some of the goodies it gives, or lower the skill prerequisite. Ultimately though, your game, your call.
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NINJA TEMPLATE
THE INVISIBLE GUILD
Ability Requirements
INTELLIGENCE >15
ALL OTHER ABILITIES >11
Alignment Requirements
NEUTRAL
Class Requirements
PREFERED: ROGUE/MONK Multiclass
ACCEPTABLE: Any ROGUE Multiclass Capable of Fitting Template
Weapon/Armour Requirements
SKILLED IN ALL CULTURAL WEAPONS: Begin with any two of these: Ninja-to, Kursari-gami, Metsibushi, Hankyu, Shinobi zue, Tetsu bishi, Shruiken, + One Weapon Consistent with Disguise.
Higher levels-Nage Teppo, Sode Tsutsu, Kakae ozutsu;
ARMOUR: Only as Disguise
DISGUISES Initial (Single Core Class from Multiclassing-ROGUE/MONK may choose Rogue or Monk)
Second Class Disguise (Other Class from Multiclass), NPC Classes by Social Rank (Peasant, Specialist, Warrior, Adept, Aristocrat)
Starting Wealth Requirements
Wealth Range: None
Skills/Feats Requirements
REQUIRED SKILLS: Acrobatics, Disguise, Intimidate, Craft (Alchemy/Poison), Disable Device, Escape Artist, Knowledge (Nature-Natural Poisons,Satten-Jitsu, Sacchi-Jitsu), Linguistics, Perception, Perform or Profession (According to disguise), Sense Motive (Santsun-Jitsu), Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Weapon Mastery ( Trained in all Cultural Weapons), Concentration (Kuji-Kiri), Listen, Jump, Tracking
FEATS: Any that enhances a Required Skill or Disguise
PIAO SHIH TEMPLATE
THE CARAVAN GUARD
Ability Requirements
ALL ABILITIES >11
STRENGTH or DEXTERITY >14
WISDOM or CHARISMA >14
Alignment Requirements
ANY LAWFUL or ANY GOOD Alignment (LAWFUL EVIL RESTRICTED TO EVIL GOVERNMENTS)
Class Requirements
PREFERED: RANGER/MONK Multiclass
ACCEPTABLE: ANY MULTICLASS WITH HD TYPE D8
Weapon/Armour Requirements
WEAPON: ANY (POISON only if LAWFUL EVIL), INITIALLY: Dart
ARMOUR: ANY, INITIALLY: Leather, Studded Leather, Padded Leather
Starting Wealth Requirements
Wealth Range 11-50 sp
Skills/Feats Requirements
REQUIRED SKILLS: Tracking, Leadership, Diplomacy, Unarmed Combat, Climb, Languages, Mounted Combat, Swim, and Weapon Mastery (other than Dart).
I have indeed seen the core ninja class listed in the complete adventurer. I mean no offense to those who like it, but I personally found it....pathetic. That opinion was only confirmed after watching someone try to play it, but that might have as much to due with the player attempting it. But I digress.
I had mainly been comparing it to the Rogue class Black Bard, and it seemed pretty comparable. I will take a closer look at the assassin class. Any suggestions on a few ways to up the power level just a bit?
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I have indeed seen the core ninja class listed in the complete adventurer. I mean no offense to those who like it, but I personally found it....pathetic. That opinion was only confirmed after watching someone try to play it, but that might have as much to due with the player attempting it. But I digress.
I had mainly been comparing it to the Rogue class Black Bard, and it seemed pretty comparable. I will take a closer look at the assassin class. Any suggestions on a few ways to up the power level just a bit?
1. In that case grab a Wizard.
2. Put him in the Ninja clothing.3. Give him throwing stars he can enhance using a magic missile variant (auto hit, magic missile damage)
4. Blowgun (for use with Spells: Sleep, Poisonous gas,...)
The Wizard can give the Ninja a lot of the mysticism and magic that the traditional Ninja was thought to have.
I always liked the 1E approach to Ninja, in regards to it being a multi-class. You could be a wu jen (wizard), bushi (fighter), etc. and you also had the ninja class (rogue). Therefore, in daily life, everyone percieved you as the other base class (for cover, deception, fitting into society, etc.) but during a mission you had your rogue skills. With that stated, it would be fairly easy just to multi-class. You could also consider courtesan (bard).
But probably, based on the discussion, a pure class is preferred, so sorry for the thread hijack, as I reminisce.