I was thinking earlier that the incredibly limited spellpower of paladins and rangers didn't really get addressed in PF. That is, they have very few worthwhile spells on their spell lists, gain spells that ARE useful a few (to several) levels beyond the point at which their counterparts (clerics and druids)receive those spells, AND have an extremely small number of spells per day. As such, it's hard to justify preparing most of the spells on their respective lists since many are only useful in specific situations, which may end up wasting a spell slot for an entire day--less of a concern for class that have dozens of spells, but for the paladin and ranger 1 wasted slot is a pretty big deal.
Now, there are probably many ways to solve this issue, but the one that seems both easiest to implement and the least likely to cause any problems is to simply give them spontaneous casting, where they may cast any spell on their respective spell lists with their available spell slots, rather than having to prepare ahead of time.
What do you folks think about that?
ONLY if there was a constrained list of spells they could cast, either through knowledge (a la sorcerer/bard) or a smaller spell list. One of the keys in playing prepared spell casters, IMO, is team work- ie get the wiz or cleric to burn a divination to figure out what is coming down the pike today. yes, you have to rely on a DM who isn't a total doosh, but it is a nice way to make "prep time" together time :)
I was thinking earlier that the incredibly limited spellpower of paladins and rangers didn't really get addressed in PF. That is, they have very few worthwhile spells on their spell lists, gain spells that ARE useful a few (to several) levels beyond the point at which their counterparts (clerics and druids)receive those spells, AND have an extremely small number of spells per day. As such, it's hard to justify preparing most of the spells on their respective lists since many are only useful in specific situations, which may end up wasting a spell slot for an entire day--less of a concern for class that have dozens of spells, but for the paladin and ranger 1 wasted slot is a pretty big deal.
Now, there are probably many ways to solve this issue, but the one that seems both easiest to implement and the least likely to cause any problems is to simply give them spontaneous casting, where they may cast any spell on their respective spell lists with their available spell slots, rather than having to prepare ahead of time.
What do you folks think about that?
Seeing how many useful spells there are it would serve to make them stronger, probably not by much, but a bit stronger still, otherwise sure.. it will not be a huge deal from a party perspective those resources should already be around.
Seeing as how limited their spell ability is I would rather have seen some fixes for that rather than new fancy abilities. I just don't like what is done with the paladin though, I still got it under the banhammer till I get around to rewriting it.
Instead of swift laying on hands I would liked to have seen swift cast spells, I prefer them preparing spells though for a bit more versatility.
I was thinking earlier that the incredibly limited spellpower of paladins and rangers didn't really get addressed in PF. That is, they have very few worthwhile spells on their spell lists, gain spells that ARE useful a few (to several) levels beyond the point at which their counterparts (clerics and druids)receive those spells, AND have an extremely small number of spells per day. As such, it's hard to justify preparing most of the spells on their respective lists since many are only useful in specific situations, which may end up wasting a spell slot for an entire day--less of a concern for class that have dozens of spells, but for the paladin and ranger 1 wasted slot is a pretty big deal.
Now, there are probably many ways to solve this issue, but the one that seems both easiest to implement and the least likely to cause any problems is to simply give them spontaneous casting, where they may cast any spell on their respective spell lists with their available spell slots, rather than having to prepare ahead of time.
What do you folks think about that?
Seeing how many useful spells there are it would serve to make them stronger, probably not by much, but a bit stronger still, otherwise sure.. it will not be a huge deal from a party perspective those resources should already be around.
Seeing as how limited their spell ability is I would rather have seen some fixes for that rather than new fancy abilities. I just don't like what is done with the paladin though, I still got it under the banhammer till I get around to rewriting it.
Instead of swift laying on hands I would liked to have seen swift cast spells, I prefer them preparing spells though for a bit more versatility.
There are a fair number of decent spells on the list, and a few that are good, but most are fairly situational, and when you only get 1 or 2 of each spell level, it seems like giving them the ability to access their whole spell list when they cast would be reasonable. Heck, at level 20, a paladin will be looking at MAYBE 6/6/4/4.
How does leaving them as a prepared caster give them MORE versatility?
I was thinking earlier that the incredibly limited spellpower of paladins and rangers didn't really get addressed in PF. That is, they have very few worthwhile spells on their spell lists, gain spells that ARE useful a few (to several) levels beyond the point at which their counterparts (clerics and druids)receive those spells, AND have an extremely small number of spells per day. As such, it's hard to justify preparing most of the spells on their respective lists since many are only useful in specific situations, which may end up wasting a spell slot for an entire day--less of a concern for class that have dozens of spells, but for the paladin and ranger 1 wasted slot is a pretty big deal.
Now, there are probably many ways to solve this issue, but the one that seems both easiest to implement and the least likely to cause any problems is to simply give them spontaneous casting, where they may cast any spell on their respective spell lists with their available spell slots, rather than having to prepare ahead of time.
What do you folks think about that?
Seeing how many useful spells there are it would serve to make them stronger, probably not by much, but a bit stronger still, otherwise sure.. it will not be a huge deal from a party perspective those resources should already be around.
Seeing as how limited their spell ability is I would rather have seen some fixes for that rather than new fancy abilities. I just don't like what is done with the paladin though, I still got it under the banhammer till I get around to rewriting it.
Instead of swift laying on hands I would liked to have seen swift cast spells, I prefer them preparing spells though for a bit more versatility.
So, you want paladins to have one of their teammates burn one of their spell slots just so a paladin has a sense of what to do with their (weaker) spell slots? That doesn't seem especially reasonable.
I don't know if this would help at all, but I'm currently playtesting a more flexible memorization system for prepared casters. You still only prepare X number of spells of each level per day, but you can use any spell you have prepared as often as you like that day until you run out of castings of that spell level. So a Paladin might prepare bless, cure light wounds, and lesser restoration as their level 1 spells, but cast bless once and lesser restoration twice that day without using cure light wounds at all. This way you still have some of the forethought that prepared casters demand, but with more flexibility.
Cool! I like this method!!! Reminds me of the Spirit Shaman from the Complete Divine.
The Spell Compendium has some nice spells for Rangers (I checked for a fellow player) and I'm guessing for Paladins too (I haven't checked yet).
My new favorite spells for Rangers? Swift Haste! It hastes you for 1d4 rounds as a swift action!!! How flippin's sweet is that? It's 2nd level for Rangers, so they need to be at least 8th level to get it.