Contributor
|
How is this handled officially? It seems silly to just divide the cost of a fully-charged wand by 50 and pro-rate it, as one could then buy a wand with 1 charge for a ridiculously-low price. What is the first charge worth - half the base price of the wand? More? Less? I've used half before, but would like the "official" take.
The easy way I came up with is to charge the cost of a scroll for the first charge and prorate the balance. That way you avoid weird situations where wands with 2 charges are cheaper than the equivalent scroll.
I've also been known to charge 75% of the price for a half charged wand.
I never even thought of that. That is a good idea if anyone tries it.
You could also just assume no wand with fewer than 5 charges is sold (or those that are are sold at scroll cost). But definitely - no "I buy a wand with... 22 charges! I have just enough gold for that."
"You find one with charges."
|
Contributor
|
The easy way I came up with is to charge the cost of a scroll for the first charge and prorate the balance. That way you avoid weird situations where wands with 2 charges are cheaper than the equivalent scroll.
Bingo - I think that's the way to go. It puts a premium on the fact that it's a wand, to avoid the guy with a quiverfull of wands with 1 charge each at very low cost. Thanks, Ogre!
(FWIW, I usually don't allow purchase of items "off the shelf" any mroe - with the way cities now have minor/moderate/etc. magic items generated to be available, I usually say that anything else needs to be custom made (and thus fully charged). Usually, scrolls would be the way to go for single-use spells, but one of my players likes to fight in the dark...)
Or you can just randomize the number of charges on a wand for purchase.
Also, scrolls are more valuable than wands to wizards since you cannot scribe a wand into your spellbook.
|
Don't forget the nature of the person selling the wand. If it's a disreputable fellow he might have a strict "No Identify" rule in his shop. To "discourage thieves casing the joint".
He might have sell wands with less than full charges at full price, marketing them as brand new. Or a magic shop could have a "bargain bin" of sorts, where every wand is half price and has a random number of charges. 2d20 sounds good. You might get 2 charges or 40 for your gold.
This makes me wonder, do wands have a charge gauge on them?
Is there anything in the RAW that says how to figure out the number of charges in a wand or do you find out when they run out of charges?
This kind of thread makes me imagine an ex-adventurer setting up a "used wand shop."
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Crazy Eddie's Used Wands!!
We guarantee - NO LEMONS!
To answer the above questions in somewhat reverse order.
1. Wands do not have charge gauges. you have two ways of finding out.
a. use the wand until it runs out of charges. then you know the amount left is zero.b. use the Identify spell to give you an idea on how many charges are left.
2. Wands are made in a specific format. They are not orderable in a half charged or single charged state. Wands discovered in dungeons on the other hand tend to be only partially charged having expended some of thier capacity.
Identify doesn't work like that anymore. All it does not is give you a +10 on your spellcraft check to figure out the wand's purpose. I can't find anything under the spellcraft skill that lets you determine how many charges a wand has.
|
To answer the above questions in somewhat reverse order.
1. Wands do not have charge gauges. you have two ways of finding out.
a. use the wand until it runs out of charges. then you know the amount left is zero.b. use the Identify spell to give you an idea on how many charges are left.
There is no more identify spell, not really. It provides no information that an ordinary Spellcraft check would not provide (as Identify only adds 10 to your Spellcraft check).
It's not expressly stated in the RAW, but I allow an activation (either normal activation, or via UMD) to determine the number of charges. Similarly, a second Spellcraft check made on the same item (the first one to determine the spell) would reveal the number of charges. Lastly, Analyze Dwoemer would also reveal the number of charges.
2. Wands are made in a specific format. They are not orderable in a half charged or single charged state. Wands discovered in dungeons on the other hand tend to be only partially charged having expended some of thier capacity.
I agree. In my games, only in the rarest of circumstances are less then fully charged wands available for sale. And even then I randomly determine the number of charges, usually something like d20+10 charges. Additionally, wands cannot be crafted with less then full charges. Partially charged wands do come up frequently in treasure, and when sold, their cost is determined through direct pro-rate (ie. multiplying their book value by current charges and then dividing it by max charges).
|
I can't find anything under the spellcraft skill that lets you determine how many charges a wand has.
It does say that you can "identify the properties of magic items in your possession through the use of such spells as detect magic and identify". So by using the skill and a spell in conjunction, I think, you can determine the number of charges left.
I can't find anything under the spellcraft skill that lets you determine how many charges a wand has.It does say that you can "identify the properties of magic items in your possession through the use of such spells as detect magic and identify". So by using the skill and a spell in conjunction, I think, you can determine the number of charges left.
You can learn the properties of a magic item with detect magic or identify. The exact properties you can learn are not defined, and thus are left up to the DM. It is a wand of fireball, done.
So with detect magic up you might be able to get a sense of how full the item is from a spellcraft check. I doubt you would get an exact number of charges. More likely you would get full(40-50), nearly full(30-40), half full(20-30), under half full(10-20), nearly empty(1-10) or something similar that gave you a general idea of how much it had in it.
What you can learn from identifying the item and how detailed the information will be is left up to the DM.
You can learn the properties of a magic item with detect magic or identify. The exact properties you can learn are not defined, and thus are left up to the DM. It is a wand of fireball, done.
So with detect magic up you might be able to get a sense of how full the item is from a spellcraft check. I doubt you would get an exact number of charges. More likely you would get full(40-50), nearly full(30-40), half full(20-30), under half full(10-20), nearly empty(1-10) or something similar that gave you a general idea of how much it had in it.
What you can learn from identifying the item and how detailed the information will be is left up to the DM.
While technically what you say is true, it sounds kind of like "nah, I want this to be painful for the players so I am going to be a jerk about it" - no, I'm not calling you a jerk, I'm just describing how I would perceive such a proclamation if my DM did that.
The RAW says you learn "the properties" of the item. It doesn't say "some properties" or "a limited list of properties" or "whatever properties your DM is gracious enough not to deny". "The properties" is all-inclusive, and to me, the number of charges on an items is one of its properties.
Since there is no other way to determine the number of charges short of using a 6th level spell, and (for example) nearly every wand in existence has a considerably lower CL than that spell, and can be crafted by people who cannot dream of casting that spell yet, it seems rather silly to restrict learning an important property of charged items in such a fashion.
Old school, when a first level spell gave the information, including charges, that made sense. Since Pathfinder altered that process, denying the players access to this information until they reach 11th level just sounds somewhat jerk-ish to me.
While technically what you say is true, it sounds kind of like "nah, I want this to be painful for the players so I am going to be a jerk about it" - no, I'm not calling you a jerk, I'm just describing how I would perceive such a proclamation if my DM did that.The RAW says you learn "the properties" of the item. It doesn't say "some properties" or "a limited list of properties" or "whatever properties your DM is gracious enough not to deny". "The properties" is all-inclusive, and to me, the number of charges on an items is one of its properties.
Since there is no other way to determine the number of charges short of using a 6th level spell, and (for example) nearly every wand in existence has a considerably lower CL than that spell, and can be crafted by people who cannot dream of casting that spell yet, it seems rather silly to restrict learning an important property of charged items in such a fashion.
Old school, when a first level spell gave the information, including charges, that made sense. Since Pathfinder altered that process, denying the players access to this information until they reach 11th level just sounds somewhat jerk-ish to me.
Disclaimer: I always tell the players the number of charges, because it is a PITA for me as a DM to secretly keep track of them. We used to do it that way back in 2nd ed, but I said screw that.
The part about learning all the properties with a single check is your take on the rules.
The RAW states you learn the properties of the item with a successful check. Maybe you learn 1 property each time you study the item(once per day) and thus it takes multiple checks to learn all the properties of the item. Maybe you learn 1 property per 5 points you beat the DC by. Maybe the charges property is a ballpark idea and not an exact number.
My point is that there is more than enough wiggle room here for individual DMs to decide exactly how they want identifying magic items to work. Saying that identifying the item gives you the exact number of charges simply isn't in the RAW. The RAW isn't that specific.
|
2. Wands are made in a specific format. They are not orderable in a half charged or single charged state. Wands discovered in dungeons on the other hand tend to be only partially charged having expended some of thier capacity.
This is true. 'Official' is available for purchase in full lots only. Found items are partly charged.
That said, the designers want GMs to find ways to say "Yes" more to their players (they have said exactly this). So selling partially charged wands is a way to say "yes", after that it's becomes a matter of finding the most reasonable way to do this.
|
|
Disclaimer: I always tell the players the number of charges, because it is a PITA for me as a DM to secretly keep track of them. We used to do it that way back in 2nd ed, but I said screw that.
I use item cards and just write it on the card, I've decided just to trust my players to track pretty much everything associated with their character. It's too much of a PITA otherwise.
I considered this when I was making my spreadsheet and just decided that capping the low end of the wand at 5 charges was the best option. The first reason is that the profit margin for a merchant on a wand with less than 5 charges probably wouldn't be worth the hassle of buying it and stocking it. The second reason would be that if a merchant did purchase the item it would probably go into either his own personal stash for his own uses or as a throw in bonus on big purchases in order to bring in repeat business.
Otherwise the cost is just a pro-rate of the base cost.
... shoots lemons.
Now do I have a new image for a wand of Acid Splash!
|
|
Disclaimer: I always tell the players the number of charges, because it is a PITA for me as a DM to secretly keep track of them. We used to do it that way back in 2nd ed, but I said screw that.
Agreed! If I don't tell my players how many charges a found wand has then I have to keep track of it myself and I have enough to keep track of already as the GM.
But I agree the description is vague enough that how much is learned about an item is up to the GM.