Is their an official ruling on if "Breath of life" is considered a cure spell? I know cure isnt in the name, but its in the discription of the spell.
This spell cures 5d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +25).
Unlike other spells that heal damage, breath of life can bring recently slain creature back to life. If cast upon a creature that has died within 1 round, apply the healing from this spell to the creature. If the healed creature's hit point total is at a negative amount less than its constitution score, it come back to life and stabilizes at its new hit point total.
Im trying to pitch that Healer's Blessing from the healing domain will effect this spell too. I dont see why this ability would not work with this spell. It is a healing spell and granted to the cleric by the same domain that the ability comes from. If there is no official comment on it. Then any ideas on how to strengthen my position for when i take this to my DM?
Also, Do most DMs out there give Oracles "Breath of life" for free when they hit level 10? Its another angle i was going to use to pitch for it.
Rules as written (RAW), I'd say that breath of life isn't subject to healer's blessing. Why? It isn't a cure spell. There are 8 of those in the Core rulebook: cure light/moderate/serious/critical wounds and the mass versions thereof. Yes, breath of life heals damage. But it isn't a cure spell per se. Using your logic, we can also add regenerate and vampiric touch to the list, as well as heal and mass heal. For that matter, if you're dealing with undead, then we can add harm and all the inflict spells too, as they're 'curing' damage. You can see where this is going.
In the spirit of the game, however, I don't think it's going to hurt anything. Breath of life is a spell you absolutely avoid using until you must, i.e. when someone just dropped dead. That little bit extra that the healer's blessing grants could be extra-useful in a game where you have frequent deaths or near-deaths in the party. I'd also let it slide with regenerate, or just outright let all the spells on the domain list be affected. I'd probably appeal to your GM using grounds such as the benefit of helping to keep the party alive or through internal consistency of the domain power and the spells healer's blessing affects.
I'd not take to any of it (as a GM), it's not a cure spell by that definition and would also not allow it spontaneously to be cast.
I miss the point where oracles should get this spell for free..
Best thing you can hope for is your GM allowing to apply it to all the healing domain spells. It would be a houserule though.
That's why I liked it better when it was called Cure Deadly Wounds.
Breath of life is a spell you absolutely avoid using until you must, i.e. when someone just dropped dead.
Thats the reason for this, the Breath of life was 4 hp short of saving a party member. So trying to get this ruled that way so he isnt dead =/
Then again, I think DM wants him dead. Monster was surrounded, knocked out the Tank, then continued to smash on the unconscious fighter with rest of his attacks to kill him. We killed him next round as the cleric tried to breath of life him back. Would have worked if the 1.5x from the domain would have kicked in. But DM ruled it wasnt a cure spell and now we have a dead tank. Anyway if anyone has any constructive ways i can try and weazel out of this let me know.
The monster continuing to smash on an unconscious fighter while being surrounded certainly seems like a deliberate attempt to kill him, yes.
In any case, the DM is right in this case. Breath of Life, while very similar to cure spells, isn't one itself. Just see the last line "Like cure spells, Breath of Life ..." If it was a cure spell, it wouldn't need to say that.
Just have the cleric prepare a Raise Dead the next morning :)
Creative Director
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In it's first incarnation (my homebrew game and the first version I submitted to Jason for the PFRPG), the spell was actually called "cure deadly wounds." Which let clerics swap spells out to cast it and dovetailed perfectly in with the other cure spells and effects that helped it.
Jason renamed it because he felt that the spell's ability to save people from death made it too powerful for clerics to be able to cast it all the time. Of course, by changing the name, it kind of turns the spell into a tax—no cleric should EVER be without a breath of life prepared, really.
The fact that the spell's a touch spell and that it has such a narrow window of application to save someone who's been killed is enough of a balance for it, I think, that renaming it cure deadly wounds and allowing it to work like a cure spell is fine. And if that means there's fewer PCs dying, that's fine with me. That's the whole reason I wrote the spell in the first place, because not only does it help prevent players from the lameness of sitting at the table being bored because a random die roll killed their character, but it actually serves as a MUCH less "world-breaking" solution to resurrection than raise dead.
So, RAW, breath of life is NOT a cure spell and doesn't get treated as one. In my games, though, it gets houseruled to be "cure deadly wounds" and things work fine. It's probably my #1 recommended house rule for the game, in fact... (and I don't actually have many house rules in my PFRPG games, to be honest).
Breath of life is a spell you absolutely avoid using until you must, i.e. when someone just dropped dead.Thats the reason for this, the Breath of life was 4 hp short of saving a party member. So trying to get this ruled that way so he is dead =/
Then again, I think DM wants him dead. Monster was surrounded, knocked out the Tank, then continued to smash on the unconscious fighter with rest of his attacks to kill him. We killed him next round as the cleric tried to breath of life him back. Would have worked if the 1.5x from the domain would have kicked in. But DM ruled it wasnt a cure spell and now we have a dead tank. Anyway if anyone has any constructive ways i can try and weazel out of this let me know.
Well, if the GM really wants him dead, nothing can stop that from happening. That's the nature of the game. The question is this: does the GM want the tank dead, or did the GM just decide that the monster was stupid enough to hit a prone foe or vindictive enough to hit someone when they're down? Then you have to ask, if the GM wanted the tank dead, is it really worth the trouble to raise him? I mean, that's a 5K diamond right there you'd be wasting. After that, you ask, is it worth it to keep playing if our GM will slaughter characters that annoy him?
<Dissention in the ranks>
Uh oh, sounds like there's dissention in the ranks at Paizo. Could the dire T-rex be undermining the red dragon's authority?
;)
As for the tarrasque, I houserule it this way too. I got your back, Rex.
Breath of life is a spell you absolutely avoid using until you must, i.e. when someone just dropped dead.Thats the reason for this, the Breath of life was 4 hp short of saving a party member. So trying to get this ruled that way so he is dead =/
Then again, I think DM wants him dead. Monster was surrounded, knocked out the Tank, then continued to smash on the unconscious fighter with rest of his attacks to kill him. We killed him next round as the cleric tried to breath of life him back. Would have worked if the 1.5x from the domain would have kicked in. But DM ruled it wasnt a cure spell and now we have a dead tank. Anyway if anyone has any constructive ways i can try and weazel out of this let me know.
I dont see much hope for you since the GM, judging from this, had every oppurtunity to let the player get away without even affecting credibility.. actually the GM 'seems' to have handled this quite unfairly.
- DAMN NINJAS
This spell reeks of the Mord Sith ability in Legend of the Seeker/Sword of Truth love. ;)
Yes, except in the books, I always thought it was more of a CPR thing. The TV show turned it into magic. Considering that the Mord Sith were supposed to be the magic-takers, and not posessing any magic of their own, I'm not sure I like the TV adaptation.
That said, Tabrett Bethell can give me the breath of life any time...
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This spell reeks of the Mord Sith ability in Legend of the Seeker/Sword of Truth love. ;)Yes, except in the books, I always thought it was more of a CPR thing. The TV show turned it into magic. Considering that the Mord Sith were supposed to be the magic-takers, and not posessing any magic of their own, I'm not sure I like the TV adaptation.
That said, Tabrett Bethell can give me the breath of life any time...
But still it's amusing, I wonder if it was a nod or a pleasant coincidence. :)
As for Tabrett, you and me both.
The series was a big disappointment, but I learned to appreciate it. It just doesnt compare to the books.
+1 for Tabrett
I dont see much hope for you since the GM, judging from this, had every oppurtunity to let the player get away without even affecting credibility.. actually the GM 'seems' to have handled this quite unfairly.
Unfairly?
I don't think we have that much information to call this unfair. Many monsters can and should pulverize and then consume their opponents. Unintelligent brutes aren't going to reason "OK, I got one enemy down with my first claw, so I should use my other claw and my tail slap on one of the remaining threats." I could easily see a bear or a dinosaur or similar brute type predators focusing on pulverizing one enemy and maybe even stopping to eat that enemy right then and there - not reacting to other enemies until they interrupt its meal by attacking him next round when he's trying to eat.
Furthermore, I could easily see a barbarian in a rage who is taking a huge beating from one opponent and only taking small hits from other enemies, focusing all his rage on the big threat and pounding that guy until he's literally in pieces before moving on to the weaker enemies. I could see the same thing from things like ogres and trolls and giants.
I could even see smart vicious wicked enemies doing exactly that, just out of spite. Demons, devils, etc. Rip the first guy to shreds to send a clear message to the rest. Even if they know they'll die for it (hey, if they're summoned, then death just sends them home, no big deal).
And if the enemy was a relatively intelligent foe, he may have realized that there was a cleric present, and decided going for the kill is the smart way to make sure this enemy doesn't get a heal spell and get right back into the battle.
Lots of RP reasons to be perfectly rational, fare, and appropriate, and still pound a PC into oblivion.
And as for ruling that the Breath of Life didn't revive him, that's fair too, since that's what the RAW says.
So I am not sure what was handled unfairly.
some stuff
I agree, it wasn't unfair. Just inconvenient, I would even say our GM is fairly relaxed on most things. So, I think he might have a reason for wanting the character dead. The Character in question is a Cohort, since we don't have a front line fighter I picked up leadership and made the party a tank. He cant really be annoying cause he doesn't really talk.
The Monster in question is a Giant (stone i think) with lots of class levels in wizard or sorcerer. So I would wouldn't call him stupid. More I think about it, I think he wanted him dead. So I guess I'm gonna have to find a new Cohort.
The Monster in question is a Giant (stone i think) with lots of class levels in wizard or sorcerer. So I would wouldn't call him stupid. More I think about it, I think he wanted him dead. So I guess I'm gonna have to find a new Cohort.
Is it too late to get a stone giant cohort? I bet they make good tanks (apparently better than your last tank), and where there's one...
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some stuffI agree, it wasn't unfair. Just inconvenient, I would even say our GM is fairly relaxed on most things. So, I think he might have a reason for wanting the character dead. The Character in question is a Cohort, since we don't have a front line fighter I picked up leadership and made the party a tank. He cant really be annoying cause he doesn't really talk.
The Monster in question is a Giant (stone i think) with lots of class levels in wizard or sorcerer. So I would wouldn't call him stupid. More I think about it, I think he wanted him dead. So I guess I'm gonna have to find a new Cohort.
If you can't actually remember what RACE your cohort is, I daresay the DM was justified in trying to kill it.
f you can't actually remember what RACE your cohort is, I daresay the DM was justified in trying to kill it.
The Monster in question is a Giant (stone i think)
This was to answer peoples comments on if it was an animal or stupid creature that kept pounding on the unconscious tank. My cohort was human fighter.
The Monster in question is a Giant (stone i think) with lots of class levels in wizard or sorcerer. So I would wouldn't call him stupid.Hmm, that sounds familiar. Did he try to cast Animate Dead on the slain tank the following round? :)
Yes, if this is the fight I'm thinking of, I've recently run it. It is very clear in the module that the NPC's tactics are to kill and then Animate the first PC he can (it even admits that this tactic is poor but that the NPC is too amused by the anguish he can cause by using it). In my game, this also came down to a cohort tank, dropped by two Enervations.
Yes, if this is the fight I'm thinking of, I've recently run it. It is very clear in the module that the NPC's tactics are to kill and then Animate the first PC he can (it even admits that this tactic is poor but that the NPC is too amused by the anguish he can cause by using it). In my game, this also came down to a cohort tank, dropped by two Enervations.
Im sure it is, he has a wand of Enervation. SUCKS a lot! We had like 14 neg levels due to it. But we got a Silence on him so he started smashing us. Not a very fun fight, for a while i thought it was gonna be a TPK
Yes, if this is the fight I'm thinking of, I've recently run it. It is very clear in the module that the NPC's tactics are to kill and then Animate the first PC he can (it even admits that this tactic is poor but that the NPC is too amused by the anguish he can cause by using it). In my game, this also came down to a cohort tank, dropped by two Enervations.Im sure it is, he has a wand of Enervation. SUCKS a lot! We had like 14 neg levels due to it. But we got a Silence on him so he started smashing us. Not a very fun fight, for a while i thought it was gonna be a TPK
It's funny, though, under than the Breath of Life, your post could have potentially been made by the player of the archer Paladin in my game (who had the Leadership feat for a tank cohort--some ungodly AC 40 vs giants, but not so great touch AC).
killing the cohort might actually have been a mercy kill to save the players the damage of his other attacks.
I thought it involved a player, and yea finishing off players while being surrounded by an adventuring party seems a bit unfair, if there is no good reason for it.. hence I said it 'seems' unfair.
Cohorts are another matter.. I dont have sympathy for those :)
(except Nodwick)