Best way to start: Modules or Adventure Paths

[Twig]

Hey guys,

our group changed from World of Darkness to D&D 3.5 to Pathfinder this year. Our regular DM stopped playing WoD and so we were (kinda) force to look for something else.

So we started Pathfinder with a new DM, who has experience in D&D 3.5, but our DM wants to sit at the other side of the table after almost 7 levels. We all agree that he should also enjoy Pathfinder as a player but nobody else has the experience as DM.
Basicly I offered to play several games as DM with ZERO knowledge as a DM

Enter the Modules and Adventure Path's;

Short question; which one is easier to start with, the modules or the AP's?

Long question; i have read D0; Hollow's Last Hope and like the idea. But if the group enjoys these modules i would like to carry on with the story and thus far i only found two more modules continuing the story. Or can you just glue different modules to eachother?

I have also read an entry of Council of Thieves, which is more of an continuing story (correct me if i am wrong, only read the first 4 pages after the index). On the forum's I read groups doing multiple sessions with just one part of the story and although it will take more from me compared to the modules, in the end i would like to DM for about a half year, with games every 2/3 weeks.

I also noticed that the older modules and Path's aren't realy made for Pathfinder RPG... let alone 6-7 players...

Any advice?

Twig

[DustinGebhardt]

Since you want to DM for roughly 9-13 sessions, I would look at a smaller story arc. The D-based series I hear is very nice, although I haven't read it myself. All of the Paizo stuff, be it Adventure Path or modules, is well written and should be fairly easy to run. With 6-7 players, you will need to modify the encounters. I would strongly suggest you add enemies rather than making the existing ones stronger. And it would be recommended that you alter the story as needed to fit the adventure to the PCs. Getting the players to buy into the story and becoming engaged with their characters is key to running a good game.

[BobSlaughter]

Twig wrote:

Short question; which one is easier to start with, the modules or the AP's?

I'd think the modules, less to 'digest' for the GM.

Quote:

Long question; i have read D0; Hollow's Last Hope and like the idea. But if the group enjoys these modules i would like to carry on with the story and thus far i only found two more modules continuing the story. Or can you just glue different modules to each other?

There are a number of modules set in or near Darkmoon Vale, which can form a mini-AP:

• D0 Hollow's Last Hope (freebie)
  
• D1 Crown of the Kobold King
  
• D1.5 Revenge of the Kobold King
  
• TC1 Into the Haunted Forest
  
• E1 Carnival of Tears
  
• D4 Hungry are the Dead
  
• LB1 Tower of the Last Baron
  
• LB2 Treasure of Chimera Cove
  

Combined with the Guide to Darkmoon Vale you should be quite set for anything set in the area.

Quote:

I also noticed that the older modules and Path's aren't really made for Pathfinder RPG... let alone 6-7 players...

Converting from DnD 3.x to Pathfinder is pretty simple, almost alwatys adding CMD, plus a few tweaks, and maybe adjusting NPCs to match the new progressions (not always required). Similarly, there are some notes in the GM section of the rules about altering numbers in encounters to re-size for a larger party. All-in-all, nothing to worry much about.

[Rezdave]

+1 to what Dustin said

Twig wrote:

Our regular DM stopped playing WoD and so we were (kinda) force to look for something else.

SNIP

So we started Pathfinder ... [and] I offered to play several games as DM with ZERO knowledge as a DM

From the rest of your post I gather your group is more interested in a storyline than a series of one-shots. Given your past as a WoD group, this isn't a surprise (actually, the surprise is the size of the group).

However, I feel that a former WoD group should also be able to handle a fairly Player-driven storyline, which is a sentient/assumption that colors my remaining comments.

BTW, it's only "DM" for Dungeons & Dragons but "GM" for everything else (though actually WoD should be "Storyteller").

Twig wrote:

Short question; which one is easier to start with, the modules or the AP's?

Short answer: modules ... but only if you're not trying to build a cohesive and progressive storyline.

Twig wrote:

Can you just glue different modules to each other?

That's basically all most gaming groups do, and really all an AP is.

The only real difference between an AP and random adventures is that there is a consistent villain and storyline running through the APs. Otherwise, they purposely change locations and adventure types and goals and so forth to keep it changing and interesting.

If you're comfortable with the narrative/storytelling process and can make changes on the fly, then taking any random modules and changing a few names to link them together is not difficult.

Thus, +1 to what Bob said.

If you like the modules and the introductory story, then go with them and adapt everything else to fit.

Also, the advantage of running modules rather than an AP is that if your group isn't enjoying the AP's storyline and theme, or if they are the type that like to get "off the rails" then as a DM it's much easier for you to adapt and keep things moving with modules in an ad hoc AP than with a published one.

There is a LOT of good advice on how to do it. Use the forum Search feature to delve the archives, stringing together terms such as "story narrative act structure".

A search of "story structure Rezdave" returned several results ( can also suggest swapping Krome, Lilith or a few other names for mine). I think you will find these of particular value:

HERE and HERE and HERE are some of my contributions to one previous thread, though I suggest you read the whole thing since it contains some great advice on this subject.

Also, there is this thread in which there is a lot of good advice.

I put this post in a thread that may have some good advice on structure, but I linked my post specifically because it references Monte Cook's Dungeoncraft article by issue number.

Finally, I created a thread to discuss issues of Meta-plot with one fellow Paizonian. Ultimately, Meta-plot is the one and only thing differentiating an AP from a string of random adventures. Gain a working knowledge of that concept and you can turn anything into an ad hoc AP.

Twig wrote:

I also noticed that the older modules and Path's aren't realy made for Pathfinder RPG... let alone 6-7 players...

I won't go into a long history lesson, but basically "Pathfinder" APs were published under 3.5 rules for a year before there was a Pathfinder game, and then a second year while said game was still in Public Beta-testing. Hence, the old-stuff is forward-compatible to PF.

HTH,

Rez

[Sothmektri]

THe APs that are made with the Pathfinder RPG are 'Council of Thieves' and 'Kingmaker' thus far. All prior to that are 3.5, but I'm running the first one, 'Rise of the Runelords', right now and the conversion isn't bad. Then again it might be a pain if you're just getting started.

As for 'Hollow's Last Hope' and the other modules set in that region, they were my other choice for this group, and do fit together nicely, though again some conversion will be necessary.

Also, take a gander at 'Crypt of the Everflame', which begins a three module set continued in 'Mask of the Living God' and 'City of Golden Death'. THIS is the map for the first one, and worth getting ahold of, in my opinion. All of those are PFRPG and don't require conversion.

A lot of good recommendations in this thread, though, so have fun.

[Tordek Rumnaheim]

I don't think you can go wrong either way. I am a very new GM and (RPG player for that matter) and I successfully used Hollow's Last Hope a few months ago and I just started running Runelords (RotR) for another group. Both went very well.

Here is one piece of advice for new GM's. If you choose an adventure written for 3.5, but you want to play using pathfinder rules, pick one that has conversions already available such Hollow's last hope or RotR. It allows you to focus on the story rather than getting bogged down on all of the conversions. d20pfsrd is an excellent source for conversions. Here are conversions for Hollow's last hope and Rise of the Runelords

[Geeky Frignit]

Twig wrote:

Long question; i have read D0; Hollow's Last Hope and like the idea. But if the group enjoys these modules i would like to carry on with the story and thus far i only found two more modules continuing the story. Or can you just glue different modules to eachother?

I have also read an entry of Council of Thieves, which is more of an continuing story (correct me if i am wrong, only read the first 4 pages after the index). On the forum's I read groups doing multiple sessions with just one part of the story and although it will take more from me compared to the modules, in the end i would like to DM for about a half year, with games every 2/3 weeks.

I also noticed that the older modules and Path's aren't realy made for Pathfinder RPG... let alone 6-7 players...

Any advice?

Twig

Go with the modules if you only want to DM for half a year. The first book of the Council of Thieves AP took us about 4 months to get through meeting every 2/3 weeks (we did have one long break because my players are in grad school). Another group I run has been playing Kingmaker regularly every 2 weeks since April 2nd. We'll probably finish book 1 of the AP by the end of June.

If you do decide to run Kingmaker, someone has modded the first book to 6 players on the Kingmaker forums.

[Twig]

Rezdave wrote:

+1 to what Dustin said

From the rest of your post I gather your group is more interested in a storyline than a series of one-shots. Given your past as a WoD group, this isn't a surprise (actually, the surprise is the size of the group).

Changing from WoD to D&D(based) games was a big switch for some of us, but we managed.

The size doesn't really matter. Our old DM (GM/Storyteller) played games with close to 15 people in public places and had AD&D and WoD story's going for 2-3 years. Aside from the games he hosted on the WhiteWolf forum's (Michael Dracon).
Our current DM is able to split the group in two and maintain two storylines at the same time and keeping it interesting for everybody.
Thruth be told, I will be glad if I will be able to handle the current group lol.

Thanks for the advice, i will buy the Kobold king storyline and see if the group likes it.
thanks for the link to the different threads, look interesting!

thanks again!