Non-magical Overland Flight


Rules Questions


I seem to recall from previous editions that the only creatures that had natural overland flight capabilities were true dragons.

I've perused the forums and scanned the PF SRD extensively and unless I'm blind there is absolutely no mention of non-magical overland flight.

So, my question is threefold:

1) Did I just overlook natural overland flight?
2) If not, is the only method of achieving overland flight the Sor/Wiz 5 spell Overland Flight?
3) If not, does the simple ability to fly mean that I apply the regular movement table to their fly speed?

Now I understand that IRL animals can fly long distances and effectively have overland flight capabilities. However, I'm asking from a RAW and RAI perspective.

I would just handwave the issue and use the rules I'm accustomed to (only dragons have overland flight) but some of my players (a half-dragon and a half-celestial) are both wondering if they really have a use for horses (other than to carry gear) if they can already fly.

Scarab Sages

Half-Celestials and Half-Dragons both have a fly speed. They can fly as long as they want at that speed, and there are rules for hustling and weight capacity and such when flying.

In short, yes, both of them are capable of natural overland flight. Anyone with a fly speed can fly whenever they want unless that specific fly says otherwise.


Karui Kage wrote:

Half-Celestials and Half-Dragons both have a fly speed. They can fly as long as they want at that speed, and there are rules for hustling and weight capacity and such when flying.

In short, yes, both of them are capable of natural overland flight. Anyone with a fly speed can fly whenever they want unless that specific fly says otherwise.

Can you post the "Hustling while flying" rules?

Scarab Sages

I might have been remembering incorrectly. I thought there used to be special rules for a flying creature in heavier loads but can't find those now. From what it looks like, all speeds are covered under the "Overland Movement" rules. Otherwise aquatic creatures couldn't do day-long travel underwater while swimming.

In short, you can use the 'overland' movement modes with any type of movement unless they say otherwise. At least, I don't see any rules to contradict this. Otherwise the only way for an eagle to get far distances would be to 'hustle' at its 5 ft. movement speed, lol. Nothing in the rules say birds or dragons can 'overland fly' while others cannot.

By the way, 'overland' movement is just a fancy way to calculate a creature's hourly distance traveled with their normal speed. A creature with a 'speed' of 30 ft. will walk about 3 miles in an hour if he moves 30 ft. every 6 seconds or 1 round. I don't see why creatures with a fly or swim or whatever speed can't do the same thing.


Karui Kage wrote:

I might have been remembering incorrectly. I thought there used to be special rules for a flying creature in heavier loads but can't find those now. From what it looks like, all speeds are covered under the "Overland Movement" rules. Otherwise aquatic creatures couldn't do day-long travel underwater while swimming.

In short, you can use the 'overland' movement modes with any type of movement unless they say otherwise. At least, I don't see any rules to contradict this. Otherwise the only way for an eagle to get far distances would be to 'hustle' at its 5 ft. movement speed, lol. Nothing in the rules say birds or dragons can 'overland fly' while others cannot.

Alright, thanks for your input! I'm not entirely happy with this explanation, but thus is life.

Scarab Sages

I think the question you should be asking yourself is 'where does it say that creatures with non-land forms of speed *can't* just keep using them all the time, or where does it say that some creatures (dragons or birds) can, but others can't?'

I edited it above, but 'overland movement' is just a way to calculate a creature's walk speed over a course of an hour. It's nothing special associated with the speed type itself.


The Dragon rules (if I'm not mistaken), were that they were such powerful flyers that they could hustle all day long, effectively doubling their "overland flight" speed.

Scarab Sages

Is that an older rule? I did a search for 'hustle' and 'overland' in the entire dragon area of the Bestiary but neither came up with a hit.


Karui Kage wrote:

I think the question you should be asking yourself is 'where does it say that creatures with non-land forms of speed *can't* just keep using them all the time, or where does it say that some creatures (dragons or birds) can, but others can't?'

I edited it above, but 'overland movement' is just a way to calculate a creature's walk speed over a course of an hour. It's nothing special associated with the speed type itself.

The issue is that there existed a rule specifically pertaining to dragons in the past. (As Majuba pointed out.) It seems that rule might not have carried over to Pathfinder.

If that's the case, then flying is much better.


Dragon Overland Movement

Chromatic and metallic dragons are exceedingly strong flyers and can cover vast distances quickly. A dragon's overland flying speed is a function of its tactical fly speed, as shown on the table below.

Dragon Overland Flying Speeds
————— Dragon's Fly Speed —————
Normal 100 feet 150 feet 200 feet 250 feet

One Hour 15 miles 20 miles 30 miles 40 miles
Hustle 24 miles 40 miles 60 miles 80 miles

One Day
Normal 120 miles 160 miles 240 miles 320 miles

Dragons do not tire as quickly as other creatures when moving overland on the ground. If a dragon attempts a hustle or a forced march, check for nonlethal damage once every 2 hours instead of every hour.

Here is the rule from 3.5 SRD. The formatting on the table is a little wonky, but you get the idea.

Edit: For clarity.

Scarab Sages

Even in 3.5, that just makes it seem like dragons are better at overland flight/hustling than normal creatures. A normal creature using a fly speed of 100 ft., for example, would only travel 10 miles over the course of an hour. As the table shows, the dragon got to travel 15 miles.

This seems to me that it's just calling out the exception in the rules for the sake of dragons. Doesn't say anything about other creatures with fly speeds not being able to use 'overland travel speeds' or whatever at all.


Yeah, that's a good point. So I guess RAW, if you have a fly speed, you can fly over long distances just as well as walk (or swim) them.

Ok, now I'm happy with our conclusion. Thanks Kage and Majuba.

An interesting thing to consider for a houserule (my friend mentioned this): "The way I see it is if you have a natural speed, as in flight, swim, climb, you should be able to maintain that speed over an extended period of time because it's a natural ability. However, I also see that if it's like a secondary mode of transportation it might exhaust a character a lot sooner. For instance, a bird can fly forever, it also has legs but it sucks at walking and is kind of awkward."

What do you guys think?

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