Looking for ways to spice up my monk character in OP I have been looking at the cestus and the temple sword, from th Adventurer's Armory.
Cestus, hanbo and temple sword are both denominated "monk" weapons, but as far as I can tell that does not automatically give monks proficiency with these weapons (unlike brass knuckles, which specifically state that monks are proficient with these). Is this correct?
As far as the cestus is concerned I have additionl points for clarification:
Cestus: The cestus is a glove of leather or thick cloth
that covers the wielder from mid-finger to mid-forearm.
It is reinforced with metal plates over the fingers and
often lined with wicked spikes and fangs along the backs
of the hands and wrists. While wearing a cestus, you are
considered armed and your unarmed attacks deal normal
damage rather than nonlethal damage. If you are proficient
with a cestus, your unarmed strikes may deal bludgeoning
or piercing damage. When using a cestus, your fingers
are mostly exposed, allowing you to wield or carry items
in that hand, but the constriction of the weapon at your
knuckles gives you a –2 penalty on all precision-based
tasks involving that hand (such as opening locks).
The italized text suggests that a cestus can be used both as a weapon (from the "considered armed" frasing) and as an unarmed strike option (from the subsequent "unarmed strike" expresion). The question is; Do monks wearing cesti use their monk unarmed strike damage?
Lastly: Are there any feats or traits that permit a monk to use non-monk weapons with FOB (like the 3E Unorthodox Monk Weapon feat)
the designation of "monk", I believe, just means that it the weapon can be used with flurry of blows. In the case of the hanbo, its essentially a club, but better for monks. Thus it requires a feat. The brass knuckles and cestus seem to be along those lines too, with the brass knuckles being the one you get proficiency for and the cestus the one you have to pay for. The temple sword is a big step up from the short sword, as well, so costs a feat.
there is of course much debate over the whole "unarmed damage" thing, and there hasn't been a response yet. My guess is that you will not be using monks improved unarmed damage, because that cestus proficiency provides you with a much better crit chance, as well as being able to be enchanted with magic properties at the normal rate. It would make cestus THE BEST MONK WEAPON BAR NONE. For one feat, that's pretty awesome, probably too awesome.
that said, I think it strains credibility for monks do less damage punching when they have a spiked gauntlet or the equivalent on. I suspect house rules to abound for this one.
the designation of "monk", I believe, just means that it the weapon can be used with flurry of blows. In the case of the hanbo, its essentially a club, but better for monks. Thus it requires a feat. The brass knuckles and cestus seem to be along those lines too, with the brass knuckles being the one you get proficiency for and the cestus the one you have to pay for. The temple sword is a big step up from the short sword, as well, so costs a feat.
I must point out that by RAW brass knuckles and FOB do not mix.
there is of course much debate over the whole "unarmed damage" thing, and there hasn't been a response yet. My guess is that you will not be using monks improved unarmed damage, because that cestus proficiency provides you with a much better crit chance, as well as being able to be enchanted with magic properties at the normal rate. It would make cestus THE BEST MONK WEAPON BAR NONE. For one feat, that's pretty awesome, probably too awesome.
that said, I think it strains credibility for monks do less damage punching when they have a spiked gauntlet or the equivalent on. I suspect house rules to abound for this one.
True. True. And true. :)
Weapon Proficiency: Monks are proficient with the brass knuckles, cestus, club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shortspear, short sword, shuriken, siangham, sling, spear and temple sword.
The only one of the flurriable weapons here we have mentioned that are not in their proficiencies would be the hanbo. That is because a lot of the weapons under the 'eastern weapons' heading which were not in the original list of weapons were simply add ons from Ultimate Combat and Adventurer's Armory.
EDIT: Ok, did a bit more research: so the brass knuckles, cestus, and temple sword seem to come from the Advanced player's guide, and called themselves out as weapons that monks are proficient with, since Paizo found the options that they gained from 3.5 were...underwhelming. It was part of their efforts to rebalance the classes to be on par with their system, the various buffs other classes got in the new system, and the new classes they were introducing in APG. The weapon descriptions served as a reminded "hey, go look at the monk class page. We remodeled. You like?"
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Temple Sword specifically says that monks are proficient with it.
As does the Cestus:
The monk designation doesn't give monks proficiency with that weapon, but the list has been grown a bit.
What I find ridiculous is that the monk isn't automatically proficient with the Monk's Spade.
Ah, oh god, didn't realize that I accidentally performed necromancy here (great thing to say next to a paladin). I saw this on the top of a search function arranged by date, and just assumed.