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okay so I need some thoughts/opinions on gearing a nation.
The Nation is a highly militaristic nation under marshal law. All males and woman (who volunteer) allowed serve in the military at one point and everyone done with active duty are put in local militias. The nation is between two nations locked in civil wars or full out war with their neighboring nations.
What is expected weapon/armor wise of...
The basic militia man would be equipped with what?
What about a basic army solder?
I know how to equip special forces as such, just need the basic troops geared.
Providing armor for an entire adult population would be incredibly expensive, but with your premise, I'd believe that the nation would go for it. At least for the soldiers.
Active Duty Soldier: Chain Shirt, Heavy Wooden Shield, Longspear, Longsword.
Militia: Studded Leather, Heavy Wooden Shield, Longspear, Mace or Club.
okay so I need some thoughts/opinions on gearing a nation.
The Nation is a highly militaristic nation under marshal law. All males and woman (who volunteer) allowed serve in the military at one point and everyone done with active duty are put in local militias. The nation is between two nations locked in civil wars or full out war with their neighboring nations.
What is expected weapon/armor wise of...
The basic militia man would be equipped with what?
What about a basic army solder?
I know how to equip special forces as such, just need the basic troops geared.
Depends on how well-funded and well trained everyone is as well as the setting.
Historically, miltia weren't terribly well trained -- and so they tended to be equipped with reach-type polearms (ie - pikemen) so that they make a wall against mounted attackers (and, also, most of them had some understanding of polearms as a lot of them started as farming tools, etc.)
Military, on the other hand, tended to be very well trained and taught to fight in formation (especially if you consider legionnaires and what not).
Now, in a nation where everyone fights and the militia is merely where "retired" soldiers (ie - conscripts no longer actively serving), you'd expect the militia to be as well trained as the active army, and thus probably use similar weapons, though with an eye towards reduced costs.
So, assuming that the kingdom's not bankrupting itself, I'd probably say something like:
Miltia: Longspear, 3 x Javelin, Studded Leather, Buckler, Light Mace.
Army: Spear, Shortspear x 4, Scale, Buckler or Light Shield, Shortsword.
Not enough variables to say.
Rich Country (has a monopoly on huge gold mines, or only above ground sources of pitch/tar, etc) :
ARMOR
Active Duty :
Foot Soldiers/Archers : Chain Shirt or Studded Leather & Light Shield/Buckler
Mounted Cavalry : Scale & Heavy Shield
Knights : Half/Full Plate & Heavy Shield
Militia :
Studded Leather or Leather
WEAPONS
Active Duty :
Foot Soldiers/Archers : Spears, Polearms, Maces, Short Swords/Long or Short Bows & Daggers
Mounted Cavalry : Spears, Lances, Long Sword, Maces
Knights : Any weapon
Average Country (has some money, but spends 50% of its GDP on military, etc) :
ARMOR
Active Duty :
Foot Soldiers/Archers : Studded Leather & Light Shield/Buckler
Mounted Cavalry : Chain and Heavy Wood Shield
Knights : Breast Plates & Heavy Steel Shields
Militia :
Leather or Padded
WEAPONS
Active Duty :
Foot Soldiers/Archers : Spears, Maces/Short Bows & Daggers
Mounted Cavalry : Spears, Lances, Maces
Knights : Spears, Maces, Long Swords, Battle Axes
Poor Country (has some almost no money, but forces part of population to build weapons (slavery), etc) :
ARMOR
Active Duty :
Foot Soldiers/Archers : Leather
Mounted Cavalry : Studded Leather & Light Wood Shield
Militia :
Padded or None
WEAPONS
Active Duty :
Foot Soldiers/Archers : Spears/Short Bows & Daggers
Mounted Cavalry : Spears, Lances, Maces
EDIT: Semi-Ninja'd, but still my idea of what you'd see.
Okay so how do I got about determining who wins a battle (without a previously chosen victor)? with selected gear and classes and specific PC leading the fight. i'm talking on a scale from anywhere from 20vs20 500vs500 Ect. ect. ect. Anyone have a system they use or a computer program?
Depends what you're doing, exactly. (I know, I'm specific...)
If it's a large-scale battle of roughly even forces, then you can have the PCs fight the heroes on the other side (think sort of like the old Greek-style battles where the heroes would seek each other out), and have how *they* do determine the outcome of the whole thing. (Ie - if they win easily, then the other side is routed. If they barely win, it's a pyrric victory, etc, etc.)
Another, similar tactic is to treat units of non-heroes as single creatures, and have the combat go based on that -- units attack each other, give each other flanking, etc.
I'm personally fond of having the PCs do things "outside of regular combat" - missions before (and during) the battle which will alter the outcome of the battle overall (whether it's killing the enemy commander, disrupting orders, nauseating the opponents, etc, etc.), which then gives one side massive bonuses.
In terms of final resolution, this is a very quick abstraction - less dramatic, but I think it works fairly well:
http://www.farlandworld.com/battle.html
I think you should take the "random" factor out of it all together.
Ask yourself: "How will the victor affect the setting?" Then, go from there. It's your story, you decide.
Also, somethings can't be measured in-game. Maybe one group wins despite what the numbers would suggest. Why? Maybe morale, weather, timing, etc.
You're getting into a different game with mass combat. In fact, you may want to look at a mass-combat game for rules of you are dead-set on doing it.
Am I the only one who thought "Switzerland" when they read the OP?
okay so I need some thoughts/opinions on gearing a nation.
The Nation is a highly militaristic nation under marshal law. All males and woman (who volunteer) allowed serve in the military at one point and everyone done with active duty are put in local militias. The nation is between two nations locked in civil wars or full out war with their neighboring nations.
What is expected weapon/armor wise of...
The basic militia man would be equipped with what?
What about a basic army solder?
I know how to equip special forces as such, just need the basic troops geared.
First question should be: "Who's going to pay for the weapons?"
Historically a state could pay for the equipment for the army, but often this thing fell upon individual soldiers. So, try to guess how wealthy the people are and you'll find out what armour will the regular warriors probably wear - most probably studded leather, hide armour would be appropriate for savages, metal armours are for wealthy, raders and proffesional soldiers. Shields would be prefered to armour probably, as they are easier to make.
Next thing to consider would be what materials are available and in what environment does the nation exist. If wood is plentiful, but metals are scarce, then you'd have greater percentage of various polearms, bows and clubs and axes, while more metal-rich nations can afford more swords, war hammers, picks and crossbows. The hotter the environment, the lighter armour I would expect to be in common use.
EDIT: Please note that you also need to deal with wight. You probably don't want to have your soldiers encumered by the gear they are carrying, so for an average guy with Str 11 you can only have 38 lb of equipment, before he gets the penalties.
Peasant's outfit 2 lb (yes, they still wear something under that armour)
Studded Leather 20 lb
that leaves 16 lb for the remaining equipment
Heavy Shield 10 lb
Shortspear / Club / Handaxe 3 lb
Dagger 1 lb
Longspear weights 9 lb alone, but I think that Str 10 person can carry only 33 lb as a light load, so it tecnically should be feasible to give them just this weapon and a dagger (universal utility tool and a self-defense weapon - it definitely should be one of the most common things around).
Professional soldiers have probably invested their racial bonus to strength and might be able to carry something better.
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It is a rich Older nation. Highly Militaristic, high manufacturing capacity. Keep in mind it is under martial law and has been for the pass 50 years. It is a feudal nation with local Vassals and Baron supplying the nation with troops. Like I said earlier everyone sees active service in their life and when they are done with their term they are put in a local militia. So every male citizen (and females who volunteered to serve) are trained, they might not be as disciplined as they were in their active time but they are better than any average joe. Keep in mind the government has control over every aspect with the exception of a few powerful enterprises. Leather armor wouldn't be hard to come by when the government is making sure every cow slaughtered is seeing the skin being tanned afterwards for armor purposes.
It is a rich Older nation. Highly Militaristic, high manufacturing capacity. Keep in mind it is under martial law and has been for the pass 50 years. It is a feudal nation with local Vassals and Baron supplying the nation with troops. Like I said earlier everyone sees active service in their life and when they are done with their term they are put in a local militia. So every male citizen (and females who volunteered to serve) are trained, they might not be as disciplined as they were in their active time but they are better than any average joe. Keep in mind the government has control over every aspect with the exception of a few powerful enterprises. Leather armor wouldn't be hard to come by when the government is making sure every cow slaughtered is seeing the skin being tanned afterwards for armor purposes.
Good then! A swiss or greek army might be a good example. of what might the result look like.
Let's assume that the training has actually some positive influence on the populace and that the average Str score is 13 (please see my precious post edit about weight) and that average citizen is actually a warrior (heavens forbid the commoners or experts - I forgot that they aren't proficient with shields!).
We have 50 lb to deal with
Peasant's outfit 2 lb
Scale mail 30 lb
18 lb for weapons
Heavy Wooden Shield 10 lb
Battle Axe 6 lb + 3 Javelins or Throwing Axes 6 lb (remember that after throwing two he's unecumbered again ;) )
or
Polearm 12 lb and Short sword /club / dagger as backup
or
Heavy Crossbow + 30 Bolts 11 lb and some regular weapon for backup
Archers probably have average strength 11, dexterity 13 and longbows some backup weapon and studded leather.
I'd certainly avoioid flails and other hard to control weapons unless they are national speciality. Such things are more heroic weapons, than regular equipment.
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Zmar, I could not locate your post on weights.
I would assume the military would issue troops some type of weak armor type, maybe padded armor for training then give them perhaps leather armor allowing them to purchase better armor for themselves. I had Swiss Pikemen in mind for most of the militia troops.
...
EDIT: Please note that you also need to deal with wight. You probably don't want to have your soldiers encumered by the gear they are carrying, so for an average guy with Str 11 you can only have 38 lb of equipment, before he gets the penalties.Peasant's outfit 2 lb (yes, they still wear something under that armour)
Studded Leather 20 lb
that leaves 16 lb for the remaining equipment...
Longspear weights 9 lb alone, but I think that Str 10 person can carry only 33 lb as a light load, so it tecnically should be feasible to give them just this weapon and a dagger (universal utility tool and a self-defense weapon - it definitely should be one of the most common things around).
Professional soldiers have probably invested their racial bonus to strength and might be able to carry something better.
I meant this when I was labouring with average peasant. The point is that you can't expect much from average citizen pressed into militia (w/o above-average strength score and warrior training).
For training actually the prefered methods were the opposite of what you suggest. The trainees in the Roman army for example received armour with weights to increase the stress it caused on places where the weight was normally distributed and wooden swords with lead core that were twice as heavy as normal wepons. After drilling with this equipment the soldiers quickly gained strength and got used to encumberance caused by regular equipment. When they actually went to battle they were able to keep fighting for much longer actually (aside from their other combat inventions, like rotation of fighting troops through complex set of maneuvers allowing to keep the enemy under preasure long after opposing troop's elite front line got tired and slaughtered as the result).
I have a similar situation in my campaign setting where there is a enormous military for the largest nation, as it is used for social engineering by the kingdom. They push the poor, those in debt, some criminals, and all orphans of a certain age into military service. The military is then very poorly funded, providing little more than room and board to it's members. However every member is guaranteed a bed and locked chest in the barracks, and 3 meals a day. Standard army issue weapons and armor for enlisted persons tends to be limited however, usually studded leather and chain shirts because of affordability, and the fact that they don't have to be fitted to individuals. Weapons are usually a spear, because everyone is proficient in them and they are cheap, and a wooden shield if proficient. More skilled individuals get a short sword as well. However it depends on the funding that you want your army to have. I have poor funding and corruption being a big feature in mine, and you might not want that.
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This nation has a small controlled school system controlled by the government, thus brainwashing and national morales are issued. Also the world around this nation is crumbling so there is a common cause. Also this nation is not a goody goody. The law is Harsh, fear and national pride keep everyone for the most part in line. Are there rebels, yes. When the government has complete control (Fascism) it is easy to spread lies and help dis credit such forces of a rebellious nature.
I think your state would do good under ancient greek military system. Every citizen (as opposed to slaves or merely commoners living in the area) was required to purchase their own panoply and to maintain it. All citizens also took part in some military training and took arms to defend their state when such need arised.
Greek cultural elitism, asumption of ideal human, and love of sports produced moderately trained and highly motivated troops, who each had their own spear, helmet, knife or short sword and shield (hoplon) in case of the poorest. Wealthier warriors could purchase greaves, bracers and a breastplate (in that order usualy), earning themselves more prestigeous place at formation's front. This allowed them to form reltively firm and rigid formations of spearmen (phalanxes). These formations were quite hard to defeat as long as the morale held (note that cavalry was very rare in those times and it fought in a much less efficient way, mostly it was reserved to pursue fleeing troops or for gathering information better cavalry later lead to use of longer spears and loss of shield - Macedonians actually used longspears 5-6 meters long!). Even a mildly talented leader was able to hold his own against almost anything that he had to face with only a few traditional tactics. Greeks usually suported their own troops with mercenries, who gnerally provided ranged firepower and other light infantry.
Sparta with it's totalitarian system and tough regimen of training could be an ideal inspiration, don't you think?
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Zmar, yes this all does make sense. thanks to everyone especially to Zmar. I like the idea of Sparta with of course with a mid-evil feel to it. There are no slaves but maybe I should put in a lesser caste that would stay behind and take care of manual labor as well as the farming and what not. I will incorporate the richer having the more prestigious frontal assault roles maybe even giving them positions of leadership within the military/militias.
I love the logistics as well. the encumbrance factor. Supply issues wouldn't be a big deal for the militia since they would almost always be fighting in the borders of the nation. this makes me think that a labor caste will be needed just to manage the supply trains and what not.
Keep in mind even though I want this to be close to realistic it is also a fantasy game there will be minor magical factors in this.
Also... In my campaign there are two types of goblinoids, Feral (normal type of goblins) and the asian culture of Samurai (the asian heritage being completely replaced by goblinoids instead of humans).The Samurai Goblin nation will also be marching in combat as well.
Is there any other factor I am missing? I will have the active military leading assaults into bordering nations. Reasons being suppressing neighboring build-ups, military training (nothing like the real thing), and of course profit. So again anyone else think of anything else I am missing?
Glad to help a little.
Actually I don't think that Sparta needs any mid-evil feel added to it. Traditionally the Spartans were said to sacrifice any sickly or deformed children. Boys at certain age (7?) were taken away from their mothers and brought up by state schools to become warriors in a rather tough and brutal manner. All Spartans (I mean citizens, not slaves) were trained and governed by central authority and were kept under state supervision untill the age of 30 when they were allowed to have a wife and become citizens. Sparta can easily be the survival of the fittest LN or even LE sate.
Wikipedia entry upon Sparta is actually quite extensive (much to my delight).
Zmar, yes this all does make sense. thanks to everyone especially to Zmar. I like the idea of Sparta with of course with a mid-evil feel to it. There are no slaves but maybe I should put in a lesser caste that would stay behind and take care of manual labor as well as the farming and what not. I will incorporate the richer having the more prestigious frontal assault roles maybe even giving them positions of leadership within the military/militias.
You could have the "weak" and "broken" end up here -- children are tested at age 6 or 8, and if they fail the test, they end up in the "worker" caste and lose the right to hold property, etc.
Is there any other factor I am missing? I will have the active military leading assaults into bordering nations. Reasons being suppressing neighboring build-ups, military training (nothing like the real thing), and of course profit. So again anyone else think of anything else I am missing?
In active war, the biggest thing is attempting to take away your enemy's ability to wage war. Thus, it's quite accepted (and good planning) to go after training areas (take out the soldiers before they're ripe), as well as raid the production chain. [Usually, you steal prepared food and weapons and destroy everything else - though it may be worth taking refined ore and textiles, depending]
Also, depending on the size of the nations and their political systems, you may have some regional effects. For instance, the nobles on the border shared with the enemy tend to have huge demands for labour, items, manpower, etc, from the baronies and manors on the other side of the kingdom -- over a long war, there ends up being bad blood as the side that hasn't been raided gets sick of sending their best stuff off to the borderlands all the time. (Add in the fact that, to protect your supplies, you tend to keep them far away from the border, so the food production and/or mining often happens out there, and the "inner" folk have powerful leverage... and then when they get raided, they tend to react like it's a full-scale invasion).
How to shut pseudo-medieval economy down? If you don't take slaves and don't care much about morals, you can always cripple the defeated soldiers, Cuting away the sword hand or breaking a leg can permanently neutralize the threat of the soldier ever taking up arms against you. Collapse iron mines and the weapons are suddenly much harder to come by, take away the crops just after the harvest and all the livestock, trample and burn the rest in a quick raid. Your army sits on a pile of food, ready to camp for the winter. The same can't be said about the enemy population with winter coming, empty granaries and stables. The weather will take care of possible retaliation. Salt any ground you don't want to settle or hold and poison water there. Nothing edible will grow there for quite some time and thus you keep the enemy at arm's length away without having to dedicate a huge army to keep the border. Just regular patrols. Add a few ankheg eggs...
okay so I need some thoughts/opinions on gearing a nation.
The Nation is a highly militaristic nation under marshal law. All males and woman (who volunteer) allowed serve in the military at one point and everyone done with active duty are put in local militias. The nation is between two nations locked in civil wars or full out war with their neighboring nations.
What is expected weapon/armor wise of...
The basic militia man would be equipped with what?
What about a basic army solder?
I know how to equip special forces as such, just need the basic troops geared.
You’re almost describing Israel.
basic troops: Leather Armor, short swords, cross bow. Things are easy to learn to use and are cheap to make.
...
You’re almost describing Israel.
basic troops: Leather Armor, short swords, cross bow. Things are easy to learn to use and are cheap to make.
Short swords are recommended only if you have warriors, otherwise there are those non-proficiency penalties, the same goes for armour...
In the end you'd probably do best with leather armour, longspear and dagger for commoner/expert militia you gather from the fields and workshops.
Fancier things would recquire warriors and levels.
Personally I prefer giving the NPCs a few levels, saving level 1 Commoners for children. Adults could be level 3 or 4 easily.
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Okay so how do I got about determining who wins a battle (without a previously chosen victor)? with selected gear and classes and specific PC leading the fight. i'm talking on a scale from anywhere from 20vs20 500vs500 Ect. ect. ect. Anyone have a system they use or a computer program?
Usually, it would just be determined by the GM as a story thing, and we wouldn't bother with math.
But, in the cases where it wasn't part of the storyline, we would just assume that every 20 soldiers would roll one of each number from 1 to 20. Those that hit, hit. Everyone did average damage (round up), so a spear that does 1d6 would do 4 pts while a longspear that does 1d8 would do 5 pts. One hit per 20 would be an automatic hit (regardless of the AC of the opposing units) and be a 'critical' and do double base damage (regardless of actual critical threat or multiplier, and without any rolling to confirm).
Everyone has average hit points, so a Con 11 Warrior 1 would have six hit points, but instead of having each soldier take damage individually, each group of 20 or so (5 for smaller fights like 'defend the village,' 100 for bigger wars) would count as a unit and have their hit points totalled. In the above example (20 Con 11 1st level Warriors, each with 6 hit points), the unit would have 120 hit points (20 x6) and for every six hit points it takes from the opposing unit, a soldier would fall.
No dice rolled, just X number of soldiers dropping each round from each side, with modifiers based on whatever the PCs do to mess things up.
For units smaller than 20, the total damage became a percentage, so that 17 soldiers (after three died last round, for example) would inflict 85% of whatever damage they should have inflicted. For units larger than 20, the same thing, but a multiplier. 90 soldiers would inflict four and a half times as much damage, for example.
Something like 10% of the fallen soldiers would survive (waking up at 0 hp an hour later, barring units that never survive at 0, like undead, summoned critters or constructs) without any sort of special effort to increase that number. A Con bonus or the presence of healers or even mundane medics running around and bandaging people could change things, but we didn't have formal rules for that.
So 20 1st level Warriors with studded leather, heavy wooden shields and longspears, 10s and 11s in all stats and no useful feats (AC 14, 6 hp, average damage 5, +1 to hit) against 10 zombies (AC 12, 12 hp, average damage 8, +4 to hit) would have a unit damage of 66 hp / round (killing 5 zombies and reducing another to half health), while the zombies would have a unit damage of 88 / round (killing 14 warriors, and leaving another one at 1/3rd health).
A 'round' for these actions would instead be a full minute, or even more, in some cases, depending on how cinematic the GM was feeling. Everyone just rushing together and everyone being dead 9 seconds later just felt a bit weird. :)
There were exceptions, such as cases where a milita with 'the wrong weapons' would end up facing skeletons or something (DR 5 vs. piercing and you do a fixed 5 pts of damage / soldier? Unavoidable epic slaughter!). We'd resort to the time honored tradition of making stuff up. "Roll Xd8 damage and see if any of them gets through!" "Everyone shield-bash instead, it's less damage but it won't get stopped by DR!"
There were exceptions, such as cases where a milita with 'the wrong weapons' would end up facing skeletons or something (DR 5 vs. piercing and you do a fixed 5 pts of damage / soldier? Unavoidable epic slaughter!). We'd resort to the time honored tradition of making stuff up. "Roll Xd8 damage and see if any of them gets through!" "Everyone shield-bash instead, it's less damage but it won't get stopped by DR!
Break spears, bash skelies ;)