Also, because that is how it has been all the way back to 1st Ed AD&D. Characters from PC races have always started knowing both their native language and Common. This is one of the advantages of being an adventurer. Average citizens of those races living back in their Elven, Dwarven, etc homelands, however, would not know Common.
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Gorbacz and Enevhar Aldarion, thank you both for your responses. It makes sence that elves and dwarves can speak their own language and the “lingua Franca” of Taldoran common.
Now I have another question. If Dwarves and elves etc, get their own native racial tongue and Taldan common why doesn’t the same applies for humans?
Vaarisians, Shaonti, Garundi,Keleshites, Kellids Ulfens, have their own native languages, shouldn’t they get their native languages and common as well?
I assume the Mwangi, the Tian and the Vudrani have many languages.
What do you think?
Gorbacz and Enevhar Aldarion, thank you both for your responses. It makes sence that elves and dwarves can speak their own language and the “lingua Franca” of Taldoran common.
Now I have another question. If Dwarves and elves etc, get their own native racial tongue and Taldan common why doesn’t the same applies for humans?
Vaarisians, Shaonti, Garundi,Keleshites, Kellids Ulfens, have their own native languages, shouldn’t they get their native languages and common as well?
I assume the Mwangi, the Tian and the Vudrani have many languages.What do you think?
I think that makes sense, as long as the character has a 10+ Int.
It's what I've done with characters in my campaign...
Creative Director
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Gorbacz and Enevhar Aldarion, thank you both for your responses. It makes sence that elves and dwarves can speak their own language and the “lingua Franca” of Taldoran common.
Now I have another question. If Dwarves and elves etc, get their own native racial tongue and Taldan common why doesn’t the same applies for humans?
Vaarisians, Shaonti, Garundi,Keleshites, Kellids Ulfens, have their own native languages, shouldn’t they get their native languages and common as well?
I assume the Mwangi, the Tian and the Vudrani have many languages.What do you think?
Humans SHOULD gain additional languages like that... but note that the human presented in the core rules is not from Golarion. We can't assume that human comes from any specific world, in fact, and therefore we don't list him as having any additional languages.
In the revised Campaign Setting, I'm strongly considering listing bonus languages for the 15 human ethnicities, so that most humans will start out knowing two languages. The one who misses out are the Taldans, since their language happens to be Common.
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Thank you Gigglestick, James , and Krome for taking the time to answer my post.
Gigglestick yes I agree the 10+ intelligence rule makes sense as to weather they have more then one language or not. However Enevhar Aldarion made a good point about average citizens of those races not knowing common.
I keep forgetting the Pathfinder Rule book is generic in setting. I often assume that the pathfinder role playing game rulebook describes what is in Golaron.
It makes sense that the Taldans and Chelaxians and Andorans would only have one language, that of Taldan common.
Americans often only speak one language namely English. Europeans on the other hand because of the close proximity of other cultures often need to speak two to three languages.
And Krome we often see things from our own perspectives, even if it is only 4 feet off the ground. I think that all of the races are fun to play. Even dwarves…it gives one an excuse to be cranky.
Oh one other unrelated thought, James, I think with Calistra, the “flighty” and quixotic nature of elves has been expressed quite well. However traditionally there is also a very controlled almost “Spock” like aspect of elves. How is this to be expressed? Is there an elven god of knowledge, and elven god of magic?
Thanks.
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Creative Director
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Oh one other unrelated thought, James, I think with Calistra, the “flighty” and quixotic nature of elves has been expressed quite well. However traditionally there is also a very controlled almost “Spock” like aspect of elves. How is this to be expressed? Is there an elven god of knowledge, and elven god of magic?
Elves of Golarion (and Gods and Magic) have additional details on some of the minor elven gods.
Wait, there are FIFTEEN human ethnicities in the Inner Sea region?
Chelaxian, Garundi, Keleshite, Kellid, Mwangi, Shoanti, Taldan, Tian, Ulfen, Varisian, Vudrani... and even if you count Azlanti as well, I'm only counting 12... were some of the smaller ethnicities promoted to major status for the Revised Campaign Setting? *crosses fingers*
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Oh one other unrelated thought, James, I think with Calistra, the “flighty” and quixotic nature of elves has been expressed quite well. However traditionally there is also a very controlled almost “Spock” like aspect of elves. How is this to be expressed? Is there an elven god of knowledge, and elven god of magic?
Desna and Nethys are also considered 'elven' dieties, and Nethys covers both the Knowledge and Magic realms.
Additionally, as mentioned above, Elves of Golarion has a trio of elf-specific gods, Findeladlara (art, architecture, twilight, also a bit of an elven supremacist), Ketephys (hunting, forestry, running, very much reminds me of Greyhawk's Trithereon mixed with Solonor Thelandira) and Yuelral (magic, crystals, jewelers).
Yuelral is hardly 'Spock-like' being primarily a goddess of natural magic (Domains artifice, earth, good, knowledge, magic), but her fascination with crystals, and the magical properties of such, makes her sound like she would be the patron goddess of ioun stones, which could lead to an interesting tie-in to the Pathfinder society or ancient Azlant, both heavily associated with ioun stone research.
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This.
Americans often only speak one language namely English. Europeans on the other hand because of the close proximity of other cultures often need to speak two to three languages.
Actually, it depends. There are several multilingual countries in Europe where several languages are spoken (Switzerland, Belgium). A person from such country will likely know all or most of them.
Then you have countries that have some significant lingual minorities (Russia). A person from such country will know his major national language and might know a minority language if he/she is a member of such minority or lives in their area.
Finally there are countries so homogeneous in ethnic composition that the vast majority of the population speaks just the main language, and you are more likely to meet a person who picked a second language during their education than a person that speaks a minority/neighbour language (Poland).
I believe that Golarion would be pretty much similar in many aspects.
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Again thank you everyone for taking the time to respond to my post.
James thank you for pointing my nose in the right direction to find more information.
Set, thank you for the information on Desna and Nethys, and that they are considered “elven” deities. Nethys might be what I am looking for.
Gorbacz, and Bruo Kreshensen thank you for the clarification on language. As an American who has visited Europe, my impression has been that most people speak at least thee more languages then I. I’m sure that my impressions would be different if I lived in Europe. Thanks
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Desna and Nethys are also considered 'elven' dieties, and Nethys covers both the Knowledge and Magic realms.
Desna and Nethys are human* deities, incorporated into the Absalomite pantheon, and thus popular with elves outside of Kiyonin. Nethys is an Osirioni God-King, and Desna is pre-human, and possibly pre-elven. The Elves have native elven deities of knowledge and magic, and I'd imagine in Kiyonin, at least, there's a very strong resistance to Nethys' church making inroads against Yuelral and Findeladlara.
* strictly speaking, I'm fairly certain Desna was an elven deity before she became a Varisian deity, but I'm equally certain Desna pre-dates Elves.
In the revised Campaign Setting, I'm strongly considering listing bonus languages for the 15 human ethnicities, so that most humans will start out knowing two languages. The one who misses out are the Taldans, since their language happens to be Common.
I think this is a great idea. Hope to see it in print.
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Also, you have countries that are so small, they have to learn the languages of their neighbors to be able to get along, at least today.
Example: Denmark. Everybody has mandatory English in schools and either French or German as well. Everyone who goes to high school must have more English and at least one other foreign language (at least that's how it was when I was in school).
True ! But you also have countries that stalwartly refuse to bend over and teach the "common" a.k.a English and insist on their national tongue to the point of refusing to communicate in any other (great example: France. Try getting around there using English or, even worse, German).
Back in the middle ages, Latin was the Common of Europe, and that's where the idea of Common came from. National languages were used by peasants and in everyday life, but to get anywhere around you needed a good command of Latin.
Later on the importance of France rose high enough to make French briefly the "fashionable" language. And in XIX century the idea of nationalism blossomed, and with it came a rise of national languages, decline of Latin and French and shortly later ascension of English as the worldwide Common.
In other words: a country's stance on its own language and Common speaks much about the country itself, a great area for RPG designers to explore.
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Gorbacz, that is an excellent idea. Having some countries who prefer to use their own tongue as a matter of national pride is an excellent idea.
Perhaps Galt, whose langauges are common and Hallit, perhaps since i think that nation might be inspired by revolutionary france, might not want common used. Anyways that is a fun idea.
Oh on the not of languages. I have been confusing the Keleshite of Qadira, who speak Kelish, and the Kellid people who speak Hallit.
I suppose with use comes familiarity
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Perhaps Galt, whose langauges are common and Hallit, perhaps since i think that nation might be inspired by revolutionary france, might not want common used. Anyways that is a fun idea.
Galt is so thoroughly Taldanized that I would suspect Hallit is the language of the low peasantry, the native Kellid having long been suppressed and dominated by Taldan invaders. I'm sure every few regimes some bright revolutionary tries to reinstate Hallit as the national tongue, but I'm equally sure it never lasts.
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In older editions of D&D, the common tongue was often just a trade language that wasn't very suitable to more complicated discussions. I assume most groups decided to ignore that out of convenience of play but it was something I always liked.
The Common Tongue being a great tool for negotiating prices at a market place but not what would be spoken in the court of the King.
Humans get some bonus from 3rd edition on since they can learn any language as a bonus language (nonsecret of course) rather then picking from a specific list.
If your going to include more languages in the next campaign setting, make sure to add to the demi-human bonus language lists too!
Where can I find the rules for regional languages? I see mention of them everywhere, but no rules explaining what they are, or how I determine which ones I get.
Do I get regional languages for free? Or do I have to spend bonus language slots or skill ranks to get them?
For example, what if I am playing a human from Brevoy? What about a half-elf from the River Kingdoms? A dwarf from Brevoy? What languages do they know by default at character creation?
I can't believe this is the 3rd time asking this question in just as many months and NO ONE has been able or willing to answer it. Usually these boards are really good about answering questions. I can only assume it is because nobody knows the answer.
The one who misses out are the Taldans, since their language happens to be Common.
Those and the Chelaxians, because their language happens to be common with letters dropped here and there or word endings flipped over....
True ! But you also have countries that stalwartly refuse to bend over and teach the "common" a.k.a English and insist on their national tongue to the point of refusing to communicate in any other (great example: France. Try getting around there using English or, even worse, German).
much about the country itself, a great area for RPG designers to explore.
The further you get away from the German border in France, the less likely it will become that people speak German, but if you stay close, you can often get by quite well with German and maybe some mangled school French.
I remember being on a camping (well, actually drinking oneself silly while in the vicinity of a tent) trip near Strasbourg. We were getting supplies in a local shopping centre, and one guy was trying desperately to use his school French to ask some saleswoman where he could get white sausages.
"Sche wuudräh dääh......ähhh... sosssisss..... le blonsch.... pourquot-"
"Ach, Weißwürste wollen Sie? Die sind da hinten!"
In older editions of D&D, the common tongue was often just a trade language that wasn't very suitable to more complicated discussions. I assume most groups decided to ignore that out of convenience of play but it was something I always liked.
I remember one Ravenloft game where the GM decided to go through with the "no common" thing.
Hated it. Not only will it make things needlessly complicated, not everyone can do the "we all understand each other but we will pretend not to" thing very well.
Where can I find the rules for regional languages? I see mention of them everywhere, but no rules explaining what they are, or how I determine which ones I get.
Do I get regional languages for free? Or do I have to spend bonus language slots or skill ranks to get them?
For example, what if I am playing a human from Brevoy? What about a half-elf from the River Kingdoms? A dwarf from Brevoy? What languages do they know by default at character creation?
I know what I do:
Every region has a regional language - sometimes it's a local language (like Skald for the Lands of the Linnorm Kings), sometimes it's a racial language (like Elven for Kyonin), and sometimes it's just common (Taldor's like that - though they will probably call it Taldane and have a distinctive accent).
Now every character gets some languages for free:
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I remember one Ravenloft game where the GM decided to go through with the "no common" thing.
Hated it. Not only will it make things needlessly complicated, not everyone can do the "we all understand each other but we will pretend not to" thing very well.
I wasn't talking about a no common thing, just when common is more of a general trade language then a deep conversational language.
I've made characters that didn't speak a particular language for myself, but I'd never impose a language barrier upon a whole adventuring party. That's just silly.
Now every character gets some languages for free:
Common
Their racial language (that's Elven for elves and Kelish for a Keleshite, and so on)
Their regional language, provided they have a true home region they can claim affinity to.
Where does it say they get a regional language for free?
Is the bonus regional language independent of race?
At least for organized play, they go with everyone knows common (Taldane is common on Golarion), and the demi-humans know there racial languages. All other languages (even your home regional language) needs to be purchased via Linguistics (or chosen as a bonus language from intelligence). It's basically what's in the race descriptions in the Core book for languages.
The various regional dialects are described in the Campaign setting, and each country lists what are the "normal" languages from their country. Some only have a single regional language, but some have several.
Hope this helps.
So then there are no free regional bonus languages? Not even for humans?
Where does it say they get a regional language for free?
I know what I do:
Is the bonus regional language independent of race?
Yes. A halfling living with the Vikings will know Skald.