One of my players' characters is a 14th level rogue who uses a Varisian bladed scarf.
She is built using a 25 point buy.
I would like for her to be as combat effective as possible given the difficulty of the encounters her party will be facing in the near future. Any builds/strategies/advice?
Thanks.
One of my players' characters is a 14th level rogue who uses a Varisian bladed scarf.
She is built using a 25 point buy.
I would like for her to be as combat effective as possible given the difficulty of the encounters her party will be facing in the near future. Any builds/strategies/advice?
Thanks.
This is the most obvious build I could come up with without going into the MtG mentality of finding obscure powers that work in odd ways when combined.
If you're just building for combat, I recommend a human for the floating +2 and no minuses.
For stats, I'd put them this way:
STAT/VALUE/COST
STR/ 15/ 7
DEX/ 17/ 13
CON/ 14/ 5
INT/ 10/ 0
WIS/ 10/ 0
CHA/ 10/ 0
Put the +2 for human in Dex, so you start with a 19. You don't see a lot of people starting with odd numbers, but with a stat boost at 4, 8, and 12, you can raise both those odds to evens (and bump dex up again) and have at 14th level:
STR 16
DEX 21
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 10
That's how I'd build it. BUt your player's concept might make more sense to put that 16 in Charisma, or split it between Strength and Charisma (12/14), and take Perform (Dance) and Bluff to do things like feint, disguise the weapon, and stuff like that. That's a flavor option. I'm deliberately min/maxing here.
I'd stick with a human for the extra feat, since your build choice has 3 preselected already, and at 14th level, you'd only have 7. You want to get a lot of movement out of this character, so you really need to pile on usages of the Fleet feat. My recommendation:
B Dodge
1 Mobility
3 Exotic Weapon (Scarf)
5 Weapon Finesse
7 Weapon Focus
9 Spring Attack
11 Fleet
13 Fleet
That'll give you a movement rate of 40 barring any spells and magic items. That's enough to get you in and out of most monsters' reach to deliver your one hit. Now, on that one hit, you really need to make it count. So that's why you should take Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus. If you think you can get enough mobility from other means, replace Fleet with Power Attack and Cleave. It's nice to sneak attack two people on a single attack action.
Talents: You get 7 talents, 3 of which can be advanced.
TALENTS
2: Bleeding Attack: To make your hits count, maximize the effect of each one.
4: Fast Stealth: If you can't get sneak attack from flanking, being stealthed is the next best way, so this will let you keep all your mobility and still deliver a sneak attack.
6: Resiliency: Sometimes you get hit. If your target is next to another creature and that creature can reach you, you'll want to still be able to get out of range after your spring attack. This will keep you up.
8: Combat Trick (Vital Strike): You get to hit once per round. Might as well do tthe weapon damage twice.
ADVANCED TALENTS
10: Improved Evasion: Because.
12: Crippling Strike (I'm not really sure if this can be used in conjunction with Bleeding Attack)
14: There are still a number of useful talents you could take here, but I'd go with Defensive Roll, because to win, you have to stay alive.
What are the sources allowed? (which books?)
PFRPG Core Rulebook and all the Golarion/PF related books that came out
Builds focusing on making only one attack actually favor strength way, way more then dexterity.
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In the APG there's also a 'skirmisher' alternative class feature, that grant sneak attack on the first attack you make after having moved 10 feet. Lose improved uncanny dodge.
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The key to getting good damage with a rogue is sneak attack. In most cases, this is done through two weapon fighting. Spring attack is going to limit you to a single attack.
If you want her to be effective, you need to find a way to get her a full round attack despite movement. I'd recommend looking at the 3.5 Dervish and find something similar in a Pathfinder book or allow that prestige class despite it being from 3.5.
If you can get a mount and keep it level worthy the Qadira book has a feat called Mounted blade, which allows you to take a second attack (against an adjacent opponent) when using ride by attack. Probably feat heavy but with a good mount could be a means to get around and still deal damage.
Figuring the use of a lance and power attack (possibly two handed) with spirited charge you'll get decent damage plus the possibility of sneak attack as well. The key will be charge lines into flanking which can be very difficult to keep clear -- which means your mount will be of utmost importance. Further thought suggest you might want to get some of the last wall region feats too if you decide to try for a mounted rogue.
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You might consider taking a level or two in Shadowdancer. You will get HiPS so as long as you are within 10' of an area of dim light, which can be made easy enough, you can make every one of those attacks a Sneak Attack. Also I would go with a two handed weapon and Vital Strike. (Note: It is arguable as to whether VS can be used with Spring Attack. Some think it can, others think it can't, check with your DM. I don't think there has been official input or FAQ on the matter.) If not VS then probably Power Attack. High Strenght is a good thing for this build.
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There's been "official" input.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/pathfinder-faq#TOC-Vital-Strike-3-7-10-
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If you can get a mount and keep it level worthy the Qadira book has a feat called Mounted blade, which allows you to take a second attack (against an adjacent opponent) when using ride by attack. Probably feat heavy but with a good mount could be a means to get around and still deal damage.
This has the same problem as Cleave, the second opponent must either be flatfooted or flanked to get sneak attack damage. So the first round of combat you're good. Otherwise, you need greater invisibility and at that point, you'll be getting about the same sneak attack damage using a ranged weapon with much less risk.
And if you aren't maximizing sneak attack damage, you'd be better off with a differnt class.
And if you aren't maximizing sneak attack damage, you'd be better off with a differnt class.
Exactly.
The whole Spring Attack concept is about taking you out of the highest threat zone, i.e. where you want a higher AC from a higher DEX. Having a `decent` DEX score is still a good idea (starting at 12-14, buffing when economical) just to help AC (and Init) a little bit more, but you don`t realistically need a `huge` DEX... Even with Combat Reflexes you are very very unlikely to ever takew more than 4 or 5 AoO`s in one round.Taking several Rogue levels is perfectly fine, grabbing class skills and skill ranks, but I think a better Spring Attack build would continue with more Fighter levels, and possibly Barbarian mixed in (continue to think of and play your character as a Rogue or whatever you want). The things those classes excel at are going to be more effective when Spring Attacking then Sneak Attack progression. Personally, I think Spring Attack just isn`t all that amazing at anything, and focusing on drawing AoO`s is alot more effective strategy (in a defensive fighting sort of way). Reach/ Reach Weapons, Unexpected Strike and the new Come and Get Me ability can definitely result in even fewer counter-attacks against you than Spring Attack, while keeping you in combat where you are most useful (on various levels, from Full Attacking to inhibiting enemy action, etc.) Check the DPR thread, and look at the ¨additional attack DPR¨ numbers for the better optimized melee builds (Curvy Camilla for one) - Getting just ONE AoO on top of a single attack generally outpaces a Full Attack statistically, so you can imagine a build designed around multiple AoO`s.
If you can get a mount and keep it level worthy the Qadira book has a feat called Mounted blade, which allows you to take a second attack (against an adjacent opponent) when using ride by attack. Probably feat heavy but with a good mount could be a means to get around and still deal damage.This has the same problem as Cleave, the second opponent must either be flatfooted or flanked to get sneak attack damage. So the first round of combat you're good. Otherwise, you need greater invisibility and at that point, you'll be getting about the same sneak attack damage using a ranged weapon with much less risk.
And if you aren't maximizing sneak attack damage, you'd be better off with a differnt class.
I agree for the most part honestly. However for something different or a challenge it's a possibility.
There's been "official" input.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/pathfinder-faq#TOC-Vital-Strike-3-7-10-
Thanks for pointing that out to me. I had not seen the official answer.
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I have found that using Acrobatics and flanking enemies is just as effective as spring attack. That way the rogue at 14th level can make multiple attacks with the benefit of the sneak attack bonus. In any case, you will probably have higher dexterity than strength, so use a weapon with the "finesse" ability and the Weapon Finesse feat.
Besides, you don't need the Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack feat chain, although Dodge is good.
En tout cas, c'est mon avis.
There's been "official" input.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/pathfinder-faq#TOC-Vital-Strike-3-7-10-Thanks for pointing that out to me. I had not seen the official answer.
So basically they make making single attacks in a round viable, but still make Spring Attack a stupid end to a stupid feat tree.
So basically they make making single attacks in a round viable, but still make Spring Attack a stupid end to a stupid feat tree.The problem is that people try to make 'spring attack builds' rather than builds that at times will spring attack.
Spring attack is nice for say tripping one enemy on the way to another enemy. Or retreating with a polearm, etc.
No one is going to invest in a feat tree to only use the end result "occasionally"
One of my players' characters is a 14th level rogue who uses a Varisian bladed scarf.
She is built using a 25 point buy.
I would like for her to be as combat effective as possible given the difficulty of the encounters her party will be facing in the near future. Any builds/strategies/advice?
Thanks.
As has been said by others in this thread, the best advice to give this player is to forget Spring Attack. It's just a trap that will make her less "combat effective".
Go with TWF and Weapon Finesse and lots of ranks in Acrobatics, then get into flanking and chop those bad guys to little pieces. Alternatively, lower the DEX and raise the STR and go with a 2H weapon and Power Attack (and still rely heavily on flanking). Both "builds" are effective, but the TWF feels more like a rogue and is more intuitive to most players.