Novice questions about Eidolons and secondary attacks

[CC.]

Hi, I am very new at RPG. I only played two sessions of "vampire" a really long time ago, then I got invited to do it again and play Pathfinder. I tried to find a clear cut answer to my questions in the SRD and in this forum but either because i do not yet have much experience with the terminology or because it was not exactly the same question in another thread, I am still in doubt. I am sorry if it is dumb.

I made a 3rd level Summoner and have to give my biped eidolon some evo points. I opted to give it the following upgrades:

1 point - replace claws with pincers
2 points - extra pair of limbs
1 point - give pincers to extra limbs
1 point - give reach to the pincers

In sum, a biped with 4 pincers and reach. My questions are based on my current understanding of the rules:

"Primary attacks are made using the creature's full base attack bonus and add the creature's full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature's base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature's full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on attack rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type."

Since my eidolon possesses only one type of attack, does the pincers that are naturally secondary, become primary?

"Reach (Ex): One of an eidolon's attack is capable of striking at foes at a distance. Pick one attack. The eidolon's reach with that attack increases by 5 feet"

The reach applies to just one pincer or all four? Or just one pair?

Also, the GM said that once i pick a base form i cannot change it. I could not find any rules supporting his statement or contradicting it, did I miss something or it is subjective (and therefore his call)?

Finally, since the Eidolon is just an aspect of a creature, is it mindless, just a phantom, a manifestation of the summoners subconscious (since it is the summoner who chooses the form of it) or is it something else? I do not think you can even talk to it since there is no mention of languages or even a mental link between the summoner and eidolon. Is there a consensus on the subject?

I hope you guys can help me

Thanks

CC.

[Doresh]

CC. wrote:

Since my eidolon possesses only one type of attack, does the pincers that are naturally secondary, become primary?

Yes. That's what creatures get that specialize in unorthodox attack types ;)

Oh, and if that might come up: the eidolon won't deal 1.5 times its STR bonus. That's only for the extremely impaired creatures that can't perform Full-Attack because they can only attack once.

Quote:

"Reach (Ex): One of an eidolon's attack is capable of striking at foes at a distance. Pick one attack. The eidolon's reach with that attack increases by 5 feet"

The reach applies to just one pincer or all four? Or just one pair?

For the sake of symmetry, I'd say yes. "Attack" seems to refer to a specific attack type. The 4 pincers are basically a single attack. The number of pincers is only important to determine how often it can strike during a Full-Attack.

[Nazard]

It would be nice if they could clarify between "attacks" and "attack forms", to clear up many of those issues. Perhaps that clarification has been already made somewhere on these boards.

[Karui Kage]

I am pretty sure the Reach only applies to a single attack, not a single 'type' of attack. If you look at other evolutions you'll note that they do seem to differentiate.

Not to mention it makes Reach pretty amazingly powerful for a single evolution point if it can apply to *every* attack of that type.

[Draeke Raefel]

I'm also pretty sure you have to buy reach for each attack, not each attack type. So 4 pincers would require 4 reach evolutions

[Karui Kage]

After reading it again, I'm 99.3% sure now that you need to take one Reach evolution per attack you want to apply it to, same type or not. There are a number of other evolutions that note to 'pick one natural attack form'. Reach just says to 'pick one attack'.

[CC.]

Karui Kage wrote:

After reading it again, I'm 99.3% sure now that you need to take one Reach evolution per attack you want to apply it to, same type or not. There are a number of other evolutions that note to 'pick one natural attack form'. Reach just says to 'pick one attack'.

I think you cannot pick "reach" more than one time since it does not explicitly allow it in its description.

[CC.]

Although we could not "reach" a consensus, thanks for the answers folks. What about the possibility of changing the base form? Any ideas?

[Karui Kage]

CC. wrote:

Although we could not "reach" a consensus, thanks for the answers folks. What about the possibility of changing the base form? Any ideas?

Pretty sure that's never possible. It says you pick it at creation, and then every time you level you can change the evolution points, but that's all. Seems simple enough.

[CC.]

Thanks for your answer. I am a newbie so it was not that simple for me =)

[hogarth]

CC. wrote:

In sum, a biped with 4 pincers and reach. My questions are based on my current understanding of the rules:

"Primary attacks are made using the creature's full base attack bonus and add the creature's full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature's base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature's full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 the creature's Strength bonus on attack rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type."

Since my eidolon possesses only one type of attack, does the pincers that are naturally secondary, become primary?

I'm confused, however, since there are examples of creatures that only have secondary attacks. For example, a (regular) horse only has two hoof attacks, and yet they're still treated as secondary attacks. I guess the "Docile" ability is what causes the exception to the rule.

EDIT: Ah, it's explained under the Animal type. No contradiction, then!

[Austin Morgan]

CC. wrote:

Although we could not "reach" a consensus, thanks for the answers folks. What about the possibility of changing the base form? Any ideas?

When the APG comes out in August, there will be a Summoner spell named "Transmogrify" (may be wrong on name). This will allow you to change Ev points between levels, and there are rumors it (or a "Greater -" version of it) may be able to change base forms.

But we'll have to wait til August!