Monk Unarmed Damage question

[TheOrangeOne]

So how do I figure out a Monks damage for a shifter with the razor claw shifter trait. (1D4+1 +1/4 levels).

When my monk is doing unarmed Damage white shifted is it the normal monk damage with only the +1 or what? I know the feat improved Natural Attack bumps up the unarmed damage by one...right? please help.

[Fergie]

Sorry, but I think Natural Attacks can not be used at all in a flurry.

If it is a medium shifter, damage would be 1d6 from unarmed strike.

[Mabven the OP healer]

To expand on what Fergie said, unarmed strikes and natural weapons are two different things. A monk who has natural weapons does not have the damage of their natural weapons increase with their unarmed strike.

[Fergie]

Hey Mabven, hows it going?

I was just starting to write up the titular massacre for the runelords boards. (sorry about the earthbreaker critical and all!)

[Mabven the OP healer]

LOL, your giants just have the craziest luck. I finally get my shield back, equip it, and put up a full defense (38 AC no less), and the dreaded 20 rears it's ugly head. Well, I fully expect the good citizens of turtleback ferry to foot the cost of my resurrection, even if they have to eat shoe-leather for the next 5 years >;-D

[seekerofshadowlight]

As the others say, they do not stack. You may use one or the other not both at once.

[TheOrangeOne]

Even while Shifting?

[ZappoHisbane]

TheOrangeOne wrote:

Even while Shifting?

Correct. One or the other, not both, no matter where the claws came from.

[TheOrangeOne]

Okay thanks guys.

[goartak]

Your claw damage wouldn't be effected by the monk unarmed strike because natural weapons are different than unarmed attacks. Thus, your claws would deal 1d4 +1 per 4 levels for a medium creature or 1d6 + 1 per 4 with improved unarmed attack:claw. That being said the description for a monks unarmed strike says:
"A monk’s unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons."
which to me says you could use improved natural attack: unarmed to deal 1d8 damage with your unarmed. This was valid in 3.5 rules but there has been some discussion as to whether or not it's allowed in PF.

[Magicdealer]

Even while shifting. It doesn't matter.

Natural attacks and and the monks Unarmed Strike are two completely different things.

You may as well think of the monks unarmed strike as a longsword, or an axe, for all the good of stacking you'll get.

The problem is that with the different ways to nab natural attacks through polymorph or different starting races that keeping these attacks separate and non-stacking was a conscious and deliberate design decision.

Otherwise, by taking a monk with a race that had a few natural attacks, you would quickly be running double the number of attacks, and that would destroy game balance.

Or, as seems to be the issue here, you could get your hands on a method to do some polymorph-type stuff, and apply your monk unarmed strike damage, and end up doing about double the damage you were intended to deal with those attacks.

So, basically, by the rules you won't be able to do anything neat with natural attacks and unarmed strike.

Now, here comes the house rule stuff. If you talk to your dm, he may houserule some sort of combination for you so you don't lose out on the build entirely.