I miss skill synergies

[TLO3]

That is all.

[Galnörag]

I would dig instead of generic synergies, cases where you could use aid another on yourself. Say you want to handle animal a gelatinous cube, if you can make a dc10 knowledge dungeoneering, you would get a +2 on your handle attempt.

[golden pony]

Soudns cool.

[Erik Mona]

I'd just let a player add +2 to the die roll any time he could come up with a novel reason to justify why having ranks in one skill might reasonably assist the application of another.

Done.

[MultiClassClown]

I agree with Erik, and I think that's also what Galnörag was getting at. Not only because I also miss synergies, but because I believe the WotC synergies overlooked some that SHOULD have been synergies, both in D&D and D20 Modern. F'rinstance, in my D20 Future campaign, Knowledge (physical sciences) gave you a synergy bonus to navigation, since astronavigation is a matter of physics anfd math (covered by the aforementioned knowledge skill).

[Kvantum]

Skill synergies led to 3.5 half-elf bards with a +21 Diplomacy. At 2nd level. No. Thank. You.

[Rezdave]

Galnörag wrote:

you could use aid another on yourself

We do that ... works well.

Erik Mona wrote:

let a player add +2 to the die roll any time ... one skill might reasonably assist the application of another.

Do this too.

Also, we use "Extreme Aid" so that for each +5 on an Aid Another (or yourself) check above the DC you gain an additional +1 beyond the base +2.

FWIW,

Rez

[Lokie]

I also agree with Mr. Mona's approach. Having a single free floating bonus works well. It awards creative players who spend the skill points in a variety of skills, but prevents over stacking bonuses.

[Tanis]

Rezdave wrote:

Galnörag wrote:

you could use aid another on yourself

We do that ... works well.

Erik Mona wrote:

let a player add +2 to the die roll any time ... one skill might reasonably assist the application of another.

Do this too.

Also, we use "Extreme Aid" so that for each +5 on an Aid Another (or yourself) check above the DC you gain an additional +1 beyond the base +2.

FWIW,

Rez

Wait, what? Aid Another on yourself? Aid Another is a standard action. How exactly do you get 2 standards in 1 rnd?

The Extreme Aid i can agree with tho.

[Gorbacz]

Also, skill synergies were the cause of 90% of errors in 3.5 statblocks. Heck, I dare anybody to find a 3.5 book that didn't have statblocks with errors due to skill synergies.

[Erik Mona]

In all honesty, that's 90% of the reason we dropped them.

[Rezdave]

Tanis wrote:

Rezdave wrote:

Galnörag wrote:

you could use aid another on yourself

We do that ... works well.

Wait, what? Aid Another on yourself? Aid Another is a standard action. How exactly do you get 2 standards in 1 rnd?

This is mostly a Skill thing, when a Synergy doesn't seem to quite apply or when multiple actions might be required or when the relationship is tangential but somehow seems appropriate.

It's an example of "winging-it" rules and is rarely ever done for anything initiative-based, anyway, so Actions-per-Round isn't an issue. That said, we don't have specific occasions when we applied it, except when it "feels right".

Story/Fun trumps Rules :-)

R.

[Lokie]

Rezdave wrote:

Tanis wrote:

Rezdave wrote:

Galnörag wrote:

you could use aid another on yourself

We do that ... works well.

Wait, what? Aid Another on yourself? Aid Another is a standard action. How exactly do you get 2 standards in 1 rnd?

This is mostly a Skill thing, when a Synergy doesn't seem to quite apply or when multiple actions might be required or when the relationship is tangential but somehow seems appropriate.

It's an example of "winging-it" rules and is rarely ever done for anything initiative-based, anyway, so Actions-per-Round isn't an issue. That said, we don't have specific occasions when we applied it, except when it "feels right".

Story/Fun trumps Rules :-)

R.

I guess what is being said is why require the "aid other" action at all. Just applying a simple +2 ad hoc bonus for having requisite skill is usually enough without messing with the rules further.

[Galnörag]

Tanis wrote:

Wait, what? Aid Another on yourself? Aid Another is a standard action. How exactly do you get 2 standards in 1 rnd?

The Extreme Aid i can agree with tho.

Out of combat such things don't matter as much, and in combat I'd just treat it as part of the action of using the intended skill.

As for the floating +2 for "good reason" I'm all about that, you tell me something awesome and epic you want to do, and I'm keen on letting you do.

I'm also the kind of DM who will randomly throw some dice and if they land in some statistically improbable fashion to suit my random frame of mind.

Random case from tonight that was chuckle worthy:

Second Darkness - Endless Night:

One of the players was sent as an enforcer to collect a debt for house Vornac, the player is confronted with a window who can't pay for a wand her husband purchased because he died in the raid on Celwynvain, and if Vornac wants its wand back it can go get it from the elves. Player out of character asks, is the wand in question one he looted from a drow on the surface (having been given a manifest of the exact item to return.) So throw some dice, give it chance, dice come up in an amusing confirmation, and boom sure thing you have the wand in your pocket. Now the player's character has to decide extort the poor woman... or quietly resolve the issue and make it look to the house that he did extort the woman. Many chuckles were had at the table.

[MultiClassClown]

Galnörag wrote:

Tanis wrote:

Wait, what? Aid Another on yourself? Aid Another is a standard action. How exactly do you get 2 standards in 1 rnd?

The Extreme Aid i can agree with tho.

Out of combat such things don't matter as much, and in combat I'd just treat it as part of the action of using the intended skill.

As for the floating +2 for "good reason" I'm all about that, you tell me something awesome and epic you want to do, and I'm keen on letting you do.

I'm also the kind of DM who will randomly throw some dice and if they land in some statistically improbable fashion to suit my random frame of mind.

Random case from tonight that was chuckle worthy:
** spoiler omitted **

My kind of DM.

[TLO3]

Erik Mona wrote:

I'd just let a player add +2 to the die roll any time he could come up with a novel reason to justify why having ranks in one skill might reasonably assist the application of another.

Done.

Excellent advice. That's really what I missed about them: the fact that sometimes being skilled in one area could circumstantially help a different ability. I like Galnorag's handling of it. Tracking someone through a dungeon? Get +2 to your survival check if you've got a respectable knowledge (dungeoneering).

I agree the bookkeeping aspect was a bit tedious so I've very happy with this simple, yet versatile way of handling it.

[CaspianM]

Might as well introduce something like Exalted's stunt system. Get a bonus if you can explain to me how this works in cool terms and so forth.