The alchemist gets brew potion feat at 1st level, but his elixer list is abysmal for making potions. What I've instituted is this:
Separate from his extracts known is formula known. He knows 3+ INT potion formulas at 1st level and learns 1 new potion each level. Just as he can learn new extracts, he can also learn new potion formula; the above number is the minimum/automatic # of potions known. The alchemist may also brew a potion using a known extract, so the alchemist gains a wide range of recipes quickly.
Why: currently, the alchemist is unable to make many potions. If it isn't on his list, he can not make it (or can make it with a -5 to the roll). Since he is 'all about the potions', this allows the alchemist to shine.
This does add a bit of book keeping (a 2nd 'spellbook'), but it adds little to the power of an alchemist (he does not gain access to a larger selection of extracts to whip out in combat).
Even with an expanded list, the alchemist is behind the potion curve
4th level to make a 2nd level potion (wizards do this at 3rd)
7th level to make a 3rd level potion (wizards do this at 5th)
If you allow an alchemist to have a formula known, you could allow them to make 2nd & 3rd level potions at 3rd & 5th, making the alchemist the equal of the wizard brewer.
the plus 5 to the dc for spells you don't know is nothing. adding this extra list isn't worth it. i'm currently playing 2 alchemists (different campaigns) and it's not hard to make any potion i could want.
the plus 5 to the dc for spells you don't know is nothing. adding this extra list isn't worth it. i'm currently playing 2 alchemists (different campaigns) and it's not hard to make any potion i could want.
You can't add +5 to he DC for spell completion items. So potions, scrolls and wands you need the spell.
the plus 5 to the dc for spells you don't know is nothing. adding this extra list isn't worth it. i'm currently playing 2 alchemists (different campaigns) and it's not hard to make any potion i could want.
The +5 is nothing? It makes the alchemist less effective at making the potion in question. It increases the failure rate - making him a lesser potion brewer then the wizard or cleric (or bard) that wants to make potions as a side job. Just think how embarrased your alchemist will be screwing up that potion of bull strength.
Doh!
the plus 5 to the dc for spells you don't know is nothing. adding this extra list isn't worth it. i'm currently playing 2 alchemists (different campaigns) and it's not hard to make any potion i could want.You can't add +5 to he DC for spell completion items. So potions, scrolls and wands you need the spell.
Out of the items you listed, only scrolls are spell completion items. Wands are spell trigger items, and potions are just potions. So alchemists can make whatever potions they want, at a +5 penalty to the DC.
The +5 is nothing? It makes the alchemist less effective at making the potion in question. It increases the failure rate - making him a lesser potion brewer then the wizard or cleric (or bard) that wants to make potions as a side job. Just think how embarrased your alchemist will be screwing up that potion of bull strength.
Bull's Strength is on the alchemist formula list, so generally speaking an alchemist wouldn't have a +5 penalty on it.
the plus 5 to the dc for spells you don't know is nothing. adding this extra list isn't worth it. i'm currently playing 2 alchemists (different campaigns) and it's not hard to make any potion i could want.You can't add +5 to he DC for spell completion items. So potions, scrolls and wands you need the spell.Out of the items you listed, only scrolls are spell completion items. Wands are spell trigger items, and potions are just potions. So alchemists can make whatever potions they want, at a +5 penalty to the DC.
The +5 is nothing? It makes the alchemist less effective at making the potion in question. It increases the failure rate - making him a lesser potion brewer then the wizard or cleric (or bard) that wants to make potions as a side job. Just think how embarrased your alchemist will be screwing up that potion of bull strength.Bull's Strength is on the alchemist formula list, so generally speaking an alchemist wouldn't have a +5 penalty on it.
Sorry, spell completion or spell trigger. End of the second paragraph in magic item creation
Bull's Strength is on the alchemist formula list, so generally speaking an alchemist wouldn't have a +5 penalty on it.
Perhaps that was a bad example, but the issue remains. Can you think of a 2nd level spell that is not on the list for alchemist? Simply imagine I referenced that spell, rather then bull strength.
Viola!
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This Thread raises the question: Can Alchemists making any formulae a potion?
Thought this might help. Non-Alchemists with Brew Potion for instance, can't make potions of Shield. The Alchemist though, if the thread is right(and I believe it is), can.
Sorry, spell completion or spell trigger. End of the second paragraph in magic item creation
Actually,
Spell completion is scrollsSpell trigger is wands
Single use, use-activated is potions
You can ignore the spell requirement by adding +5 to the DC.
But, as I mentioned, it would be nice if the alchemist was as good at brewing as the primary casters...
Endure elements potion DC 10+1 (caster level 1) for the alchemist, DC 6 for the wizard/druid/cleric.
Assuming a PC with 16 intelligence and 1 rank in alchemy, they have +7 to their roll. The alchemist fails 15% of the time; everyone else can brew it automatically.
Now alchemists do gain a bonus to alchemy checks equal to their level, but it is specified that it is to make alchemy items. Not potions.
What I am suggesting is not game breaking. I'm simply trying to give our poor beleaguered friend the alchemist a little bang for his bonus feat buck.
Also note - the alchemist suffers the 5 point penalty for any potion he makes where he does not have/is not on his list. This puts him behind the druid and cleric, who can make potions using their ENTIRE spell list. Compared to that, the alchemist is a bit of a piker.
Well, at least he has his bombs.
This Thread raises the question: Can Alchemists making any formulae a potion?
Thought this might help. Non-Alchemists with Brew Potion for instance, can't make potions of Shield. The Alchemist though, if the thread is right(and I believe it is), can.
Unfortunately no. Personal spells are not allowed for potions - the logic (as it is), is that personal spells are more potent then other spells, but are balanced in that they can only be used by the caster. Some would argue otherwise, but that is per RAW. I think a feat that expands the potion options would be grand (allow 4th & 5th level potions, elixirs from miscellaneous magic items, personal spells, thrown effects that allow someone to lob the potion as a weapon [potion/oil of darkness, grease, etc - as long as a roll to hit is required to deliver it], delayed potion effects, yada yada). Considering that potions are the most expensive magic items out their (in a cost per one shot use comparison), adding some zest to them would be great.
Oh well.
So first off you can't add +5 to the DC of brewing a potion because there is no DC and no roll. When you make a potion it takes 2 hours if the price is under 250gp or 1 day for 1000gp base price. So if the item isn't on their formula list they can't brew it.
Brew Potion (Item Creation)
You can create magic potions.
Prerequisite: Caster level 3rd.
Benefit: You can create a potion of any 3rd-level or lower
spell that you know and that targets one or more creatures.
Brewing a potion takes 2 hours if its base price is 250 gp
or less, otherwise brewing a potion takes 1 day for each
1,000 gp in its base price. When you create a potion, you
set the caster level, which must be sufficient to cast the
spell in question and no higher than your own level. To
brew a potion, you must use up raw materials costing one
half this base price. See the magic item creation rules in
Chapter 15 for more information.
When you create a potion, you make any choices that
you would normally make when casting the spell. Whoever
drinks the potion is the target of the spell.
Second the Alchemist rules on Brew potion overwrite the normal Brew potion rules so an Alchemist can make a potion of any formula they know like a personal spell like shield.
Brew Potion (Ex): At 1st level, alchemists receive Brew
Potion as a bonus feat. An alchemist can brew potions of
any formulae he knows (up to 3rd level), using his alchemist
level as his caster level
In addition:
An alchemist can also add formulae to his book just like a wizard adds spells to his spellbook, using the same costs and time requirements.
So with that in mind in theory you could use independent research like a wizard does to add a new spell to your formula list then make a potion out of it.
Independent Research: A wizard can also research a spell independently, duplicating an existing spell or creating an entirely new one. The cost to research a new spell, and the
time required, are left up to GM discretion, but it should
probably take at least 1 week and cost at least 1,000 gp per
level of the spell to be researched. This should also require
a number of Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana) checks.
Assuming a PC with 16 intelligence and 1 rank in alchemy, they have +7 to their roll. The alchemist fails 15% of the time; everyone else can brew it automatically.
(a) I think you're missing the +1 competence bonus to Craft (alchemy).
(b) Why would he not just take 10 on the check?(c) 1st level clerics/wizards can't take Brew Potion anyways, so a 1st level alchemist is way ahead of a 1st level cleric/wizard in terms of brewing potions.
So first off you can't add +5 to the DC of brewing a potion because there is no DC and no roll.
Huh?
"To create magic items, spellcasters use special feats which allow them to invest time and money in an item's creation. At the end of this process, the spellcaster must make a single skill check (usually Spellcraft, but sometimes another skill) to finish the item. If an item type has multiple possible skills, you choose which skill to make the check with. The DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item." -- Magic Item Creation
"Skill Used in Creation: Spellcraft or Craft (alchemy)" -- Creating Potions
So first off you can't add +5 to the DC of brewing a potion because there is no DC and no roll.Huh?
"To create magic items, spellcasters use special feats which allow them to invest time and money in an item's creation. At the end of this process, the spellcaster must make a single skill check (usually Spellcraft, but sometimes another skill) to finish the item. If an item type has multiple possible skills, you choose which skill to make the check with. The DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item." -- Magic Item Creation
"Skill Used in Creation: Spellcraft or Craft (alchemy)" -- Creating Potions
Wow my bad, Sorry I just started playing pathfinder in January and I only read the section on potions in the feat descriptions, in the alchemist section, and in determining the base price. I didn't realize there was another section about creating magic items in general that relates to potions. I guess my GM never required me to roll for a level 1 potion since my craft alchemy is so high from being an Alchemist so no real chance of failure.
Rather than fiddle with extra spell lists and whatnot, why don't you just treat an Alchemist's potions as alchemical items? That way they would benefit from the Alchemist's Alchemy class feature.