Cover vs Concealment

[Marcus Aurelius]

I have a question that perhaps someone can answer. What exactly is the difference between cover and concealment? I was re-reading the rules on this in the Pathfinder core rulebook and it wasn't readily apparent to me (probably because I'm a bit dim:).

More importantly, what distinguishes Full Cover from Concealment? Are they the same thing?

Would love to know.

[Charender]

Marcus Aurelius wrote:

I have a question that perhaps someone can answer. What exactly is the difference between cover and concealment? I was re-reading the rules on this in the Pathfinder core rulebook and it wasn't readily apparent to me (probably because I'm a bit dim:).

More importantly, what distinguishes Full Cover from Concealment? Are they the same thing?

Would love to know.

Cover is something that will actually stop or deflect a hit.

Concealment is something that obscures vision.

Having a stone wall between you and the target is full cover. I have no chance to actually hit you.

Being invisible is full concealment. I can hit you if I get lucky(Roll a 50% miss chance)

[Caineach]

As Charender said, 1 is a solid barrier and the other is soft but obscures your location. If I'm hiding in leaves, I have concealment because they wont actually stop a weapon. The tree I'm next to will, however, provide me with cover because it can't be attacked through.

[Sebastian]

The other major difference it the mechanics - cover grants a bonus to AC, concealment provides a miss chance. You can have both (e.g., standing behind a wall (which provides cover) while in a fog bank (which provides concealment)).

[Rezdave]

Charender nailed the basics ... I'll expand.

"Cover" and "concealment" are terms stolen from military usage.

Concealment blocks vision, or the ability to view a target. It provides a miss-chance and will benefit a Hide check. However, it does not necessarily block a projectile (or any other form of attack) and can be entirely insubstantial.

A bush or a tapestry or a smokescreen (or morning fog) all equally provide concealment.

Cover is hard protection that blocks a projectile (or other form of attack). In game-terms, it provides an AC bonus. However, it does not necessarily block vision.

A brick wall (even one of those lattice-like decorative ones) or a boulder or a tree all equally provide cover.

Note that, in military terms, a brick wall provides both cover and concealment, but in game terms that wall only provides cover and a Hide check circumstance bonus.

Also, a thick sheet of plexiglass can provide cover without providing concealment in military terms. The gaming corollary again differs slightly, where a variety of force-effects ... whether sci-fi force-shields or D&D Abjurations ... can alternately provide either a cover bonus to AC or a shield bonus (or rarely an armor bonus).

Although, Caineach says that concealment is "soft" this is only generally and not necessarily the case. An Conjuration spell that manifests as a thousand highly-polished adamantine mirrors whirling about the caster and causing reflections that make her difficult to pinpoint might also, because of their hardness, also provide a "hard" AC benefit. In this case the theoretical flying mirrors spell might offer a shield-bonus to AC as well as partial concealment resulting in a 20% miss-chance.

Perhaps a better analogy might be some sort of distorting force-shield (such as the one represented in the 1984 movie Dune). Such a shield would provide not only concealment in the manner of a blur spell since you can't clearly see and pinpoint the target, but would also provide an AC bonus, probably here in the form of an armor-bonus akin to a mage armor spell.

HTH,

Rez

[Marcus Aurelius]

Rezdave wrote:

Charender nailed the basics ... I'll expand.

"Cover" and "concealment" are terms stolen from military usage.

Concealment blocks vision, or the ability to view a target. It provides a miss-chance and will benefit a Hide check. However, it does not necessarily block a projectile (or any other form of attack) and can be entirely insubstantial.

A bush or a tapestry or a smokescreen (or morning fog) all equally provide concealment.

Cover is hard protection that blocks a projectile (or other form of attack). In game-terms, it provides an AC bonus. However, it does not necessarily block vision.

A brick wall (even one of those lattice-like decorative ones) or a boulder or a tree all equally provide cover.

Note that, in military terms, a brick wall provides both cover and concealment, but in game terms that wall only provides cover and a Hide check circumstance bonus.

Also, a thick sheet of plexiglass can provide cover without providing concealment in military terms. The gaming corollary again differs slightly, where a variety of force-effects ... whether sci-fi force-shields or D&D Abjurations ... can alternately provide either a cover bonus to AC or a shield bonus (or rarely an armor bonus).

Although, Caineach says that concealment is "soft" this is only generally and not necessarily the case. An Conjuration spell that manifests as a thousand highly-polished adamantine mirrors whirling about the caster and causing reflections that make her difficult to pinpoint might also, because of their hardness, also provide a "hard" AC benefit. In this case the theoretical flying mirrors spell might offer a shield-bonus to AC as well as partial concealment resulting in a 20% miss-chance.

Perhaps a better analogy might be some sort of distorting force-shield (such as the one represented in the 1984 movie Dune)....

Many thanks to you and everyone who helped me on this above. I was guessing this was what it meant but the rules didn't seem to sufficiently explain the difference before going on to describe the bonuses and penalties. Not being a military man I didn't realize that these things are used in warfare jargon.

[Kalraan]

Sorry to resurrect and old thread, however I am having the same problem as the original poster. Under concealment (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html) it mentions that for ranged attacks you draw the line from your chosen corner and if it crosses any obstacle that provides concealment, the target gets the 20% miss chance.

So in the case of someone who is getting cover from an ally, or a pillar, or a doorway, do they get the miss chance AND the +4 AC bonus too? And does this apply to melee attacks as well?

[Kalraan]

I think I've worked it out. You cannot get both concealment and cover from the one piece of terrain. It's one or the other. Well that's my ruling anyway.

Although how do windows work?

[Seriphim84]

Also resurrecting an old thread... Does any one know a rule that says you can't get cover and concealment at the same time. For instance can a wizard hiding around a corner so that the ranger (or even another caster shooting a scorching ray) gain both concealment and cover since he meets the criteria for both? Obviously that would apply both directions in that situation. If not is there a mechanic for pressing yourself against a wall to hide from attacks?