I give XP after every session. It takes a few sessions to get through a decent-sized dungeon, as we can usually get through only 4 or five rooms in a night.
The party is currently stretched about as thin as they can be, down to their last few HP and abilities. But the batch of XP I'm handing out for the last session is going to cause one or two (but no more than that) of them to level.
How do you usually handle this? I have a few options that I can see:
1) Their max HP and spell slots will go up, but they have to rest (and prepare where applicable) to be able to use those spell slots. Current HP and available spells don't change.
2) As above wrt maximums and slots, but immediately grant a new HD worth of Hit Points as if the PC had healed it, and immediately allow them to access those new spell slots as if they were spells they hadn't cast yet. E.g., the Bard, who is one of the two who may level, will gain 1 first-level spell slot and one second-level spell slot. Under this case, he would have one more spell of each level to cast on the current day.
3) Give them full health and spells immediately. This is like the World of Warcraft solution. I don't really like that, but I wonder if people do it.
What would you do?
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Good point about the spontaneous casters, I didn't think of that. With that in mind, I'd change so that no one gets any leveling bonuses until the next time they rest/sleep.
I understand the idea behind making them wait until the next time they go to back to town to level, but alot of stories and circumstances make this nigh-impossible or at the least very unrealistic.
I award XP after every encounter. When we hit the level-up mark, the following things happen:
Your current HP increase by the same amount your maximum HP do. It's not considered "healing", since you get tougher, which shouldn't mean you get more injured at the same time (imagine someone with full HP leveling up and suddenly missing some HP. Did he cut his finger on the book when he looked up his new stats?)
Your BAB, saves, skill points and so on increase at once. You get new feats immediately, and new class abilities or extra uses of class abilities. I.e. if you get the smite ability at this level 1/day, you can use that immediately.
You get new known spells immediately.
The only thing you don't get is the use of new spell slots - meaning that unless you're a sorcerer or bard (or other non-preparation-caster), the new spells known are of little use to you - though a wizard could use his bonded spell with those.
I think it makes the most sense like this.
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We give exp after every session so they never level mid-session but sometimes they level between encounters on a given day. In fact I am at exactly one of those moments in my game myself. Several players just leveled up right after a big fight and they are resting.
Personally I decided to give them the HP, BAB, skills, feats, and Saves but told them their spells and any daily abilities would be refreshed after they rested. I don't even give them bonus slots.
I could also see running it KaeYoss' way, I don't see either as being 'wrong'.
As for waiting until they get back to town:
While I love the whole training/ mentoring aspect of the old system there is just too much interruption in the process. I am considering an alternate set of rules where if the players find a mentor and get training they can get some other benefits.
Your current HP increase by the same amount your maximum HP do. It's not considered "healing", since you get tougher, which shouldn't mean you get more injured at the same time (imagine someone with full HP leveling up and suddenly missing some HP. Did he cut his finger on the book when he looked up his new stats?)
Personally I think this is a backwards way to look at HP, but I'd probably handle it the same way if I allowed leveling mid-adventure.
Zo
My group always gives experience and levels up at the end of the session. If you level up it is done between sessions. You gain whatever you should gain including saves, skills, bab, spells known, feats, class features, hp etc. Spells prepared or spellslots prepared dont get added untill the casters have a chance to prepare again.
I award XP after every encounter. When we hit the level-up mark, the following things happen:
Your current HP increase by the same amount your maximum HP do. It's not considered "healing", since you get tougher, which shouldn't mean you get more injured at the same time (imagine someone with full HP leveling up and suddenly missing some HP. Did he cut his finger on the book when he looked up his new stats?)
Your BAB, saves, skill points and so on increase at once. You get new feats immediately, and new class abilities or extra uses of class abilities. I.e. if you get the smite ability at this level 1/day, you can use that immediately.
You get new known spells immediately.
The only thing you don't get is the use of new spell slots - meaning that unless you're a sorcerer or bard (or other non-preparation-caster), the new spells known are of little use to you - though a wizard could use his bonded spell with those.
I think it makes the most sense like this.
Yeah, I think I'm going to do it this way. Though, after they think about where they are, it looks like they're going to camp anyway.
+1 KaeYoss.
Of course, HP is plot armor. I've been thinking of a decidedly lethal game, where you DON'T gain HP on level up. 3.5 toughness starts looking a lot more attractive.
Of course, even moderately powerful opponents become very deadly, and monster HP should probably be reduced too.
If you play it like that, to be fair monsters should only receive hit points for their first HD. Then all combat will be nothing but a matter of winning initiative, and the Evoker with high spell penetration will waste everything with his leveled-up magic missiles...
As for the leveling up, +1 to Kae Yoss for "standard" campaigns. For a more gritty tone, they don't gain anything until they rest.
And for very cinematic high fantasy campaigns, then option 3: characters fully refresh on leveling, even better if partial leveling mid-combat is allowed (have them prepare their next level in advance so it does'nt stall the game). Then again, if you go that way, make sure to include some sound effects on leveling, and why not have the monsters level up that way once in a while, for maximum effect (especially if it happens mid-combat after downing a PC).
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+1 KaeYoss.
Of course, HP is plot armor. I've been thinking of a decidedly lethal game, where you DON'T gain HP on level up. 3.5 toughness starts looking a lot more attractive.
Of course, even moderately powerful opponents become very deadly, and monster HP should probably be reduced too.
Take a look at Chaosium's BRP system (most popularly used in Call of Cthulhu). In in, your hit points are calculated as the average of your constitution (3d6) and size (2d6+6). This system doesn't have levels, so the hit points you have when you roll up a character (18 max) are what you're stuck at unless you somehow manage to improve one of those two base statistics. This makes the combat realistically lethal.
Take a look at Chaosium's BRP system (most popularly used in Call of Cthulhu). In in, your hit points are calculated as the average of your constitution (3d6) and size (2d6+6). This system doesn't have levels, so the hit points you have when you roll up a character (18 max) are what you're stuck at unless you somehow manage to improve one of those two base statistics. This makes the combat realistically lethal.+1 KaeYoss.
Of course, HP is plot armor. I've been thinking of a decidedly lethal game, where you DON'T gain HP on level up. 3.5 toughness starts looking a lot more attractive.
Of course, even moderately powerful opponents become very deadly, and monster HP should probably be reduced too.
Call of Cthulu is also the most gritty and merciless game ever, where the only garantee you have is to die or end up in an asylum on either a short or very short term. Playing CoC reminds me of reading those harder You are the hero type books: Die, die, die, die, progress, die, die, die, die, progress...
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Can they reasonably find a safe spot to hole up in the dungeon or return to town to rest without disrupting your story? If so, then I'd let them rest and worry about levelling up once you reach a point where they can reasonably do so (by whatever the your normal criteria is).
If resting is not possible, then you need to allow for the possibility of PC death. If they're tapped out and choose to/are forced to press on with their resources spent, then there's gonna be fatalities.
You may also want to assign the PC's a "positive level". Basically, look at the penalties of a negative level and turn the "-" into a "+" until they have the opportunity to rest and level up for real.
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Call of Cthulu is also the most gritty and merciless game ever, where the only garantee you have is to die or end up in an asylum on either a short or very short term. Playing CoC reminds me of reading those harder You are the hero type books: Die, die, die, die, progress, die, die, die, die, progress...
Well, just how lethal CoC is depends on both the GM and how inventive/resourceful/lucky the PCs are. And I find that it's much more common to go insane (often only temporarily) than to actually die. I've played in one or two campaigns where characters lasted quite a long times...admittedly with severe psychiatric problems.
Also, CoC isn't the only BRP game. There's also Runequest and a host of other games, and the generic BPR rules which allow for just about any setting/genre possible. There's even a Basic Fantasy supplement that allows for a very D&D-type game.
+1 KaeYoss.
Of course, HP is plot armor. I've been thinking of a decidedly lethal game, where you DON'T gain HP on level up. 3.5 toughness starts looking a lot more attractive.
Of course, even moderately powerful opponents become very deadly, and monster HP should probably be reduced too.
There's a wound system in Unearthed Arcana that might recreate the feel you appear to be looking for without turning the PC's into plasticine.
Humbly,
Yawar
I usually required a day or week to level up, but ever since the recommendation by James Jacobs to allow mid-dungeon leveling for Rise of the Runelords, I've been trying it out.
Pretty much, it works fine. I even allow immediate access to new spells/slots. The best part about that is it extends how far the party can go before resting up, whereas the slight increase in hp (other than levels 2-4) generally does not.
Realistic? Not particularly... but then this isn't a realistic game in all ways. Sudden insight/response to prayer to cast new spells isn't something that can't be explained fairly well within the story/setting.
I wouldn't push it on a DM that preferred training time, but it does indeed work.
Can they reasonably find a safe spot to hole up in the dungeon or return to town to rest without disrupting your story? If so, then I'd let them rest and worry about levelling up once you reach a point where they can reasonably do so (by whatever the your normal criteria is).
If resting is not possible, then you need to allow for the possibility of PC death. If they're tapped out and choose to/are forced to press on with their resources spent, then there's gonna be fatalities.
Yeah, they're in the Sixfold Path module, and they've just killed the baddest thing in the dungeon. They've got 2 more occupied rooms to get through, but at least one of them is a fairly tough room. Tougher than the the CR listed would indicate, I think, especially if I play the monsters right. I don't WANT them to rest, because then the last two rooms will be anticlimactic. But I don't get any joy out of killing PCs. Also, I've been back and forth through that module, and I can't think of anything that would disturb them while they're resting if they wanted to. Also also, I hope they're still not reading these boards.
You may also want to assign the PC's a "positive level". Basically, look at the penalties of a negative level and turn the "-" into a "+" until they have the opportunity to rest and level up for real.
That's a good idea, haven't heard that one before. Not sure I'd use it, but I like the logic of it.
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If resting will make the battles too easy, you could either add more to the encounter or find a way to boost them up a bit.
I played as a PC in the adventure you speak of, so my knowledge is incomplete, but here's what I'd do:
I'd grant each fragment of the old mayor's soul the power to heal 3d8+5 HP (cure serious wounds) or allow a spellcaster to recall 1d4 levels of spells or spell slots. They can each only be used once per character.
With 3 soul fragments, each character can get the effects of 3 CSW spells, recall 3d4 levels of spells, or a combination therof.
Hey, they're plot items so nobody says they have to just do what the module says. :)
It sounds like skill check time. With a couple of successes in survival and dungeoneering they should be able to build a little fort somewhere and have something to eat. If they fail though, you better through a creature or two at them.
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Yeah, they're in the Sixfold Path module, and they've just killed the baddest thing in the dungeon. They've got 2 more occupied rooms to get through, but at least one of them is a fairly tough room. Tougher than the the CR listed would indicate, I think, especially if I play the monsters right. I don't WANT them to rest, because then the last two rooms will be anticlimactic. But I don't get any joy out of killing PCs. Also, I've been back and forth through that module, and I can't think of anything that would disturb them while they're resting if they wanted to. Also also, I hope they're still not reading these boards.
You may also want to assign the PC's a "positive level". Basically, look at the penalties of a negative level and turn the "-" into a "+" until they have the opportunity to rest and level up for real.That's a good idea, haven't heard that one before. Not sure I'd use it, but I like the logic of it.
If the characters rest in my game things happen. Creatures build defenses, set traps, whatever as their abilities dictate. Intelligent enemies that have no motivation to stick around leave taking whatever treasure they have with them.
If there is no logical effect of the characters resting then I just let it play out.
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I've tried a bunch of different versions and stuck with the one that has not led to the whining factor. Personally, I like the EXP per session, needing a trainer or equipment, and time, but I also like the concept of tracking material components etc =).
So what we end up doing is giving EXP per encounter, leveling when they level, regardless of where they are at, and not paying for any of the process (See anything resembling what I like... Oh yeah, no tracking components =).
Overall, those DM's trying to go for the "realistic" feel are really in a pinch. Some modules and campaigns don't support the concept and worse, most players do not (for those players who do, I take my hat off to you =).
The way I story my "lazy" or "warcraft" approach to leveling is that a character is always learning, observing, and practicing. When they were originally trained they were exposed to many things that, over time they practice and become more proficient. Overall, I think the lazy version is hideous, but my players prefer this style =(
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Just a slight tangent on the training thing...
I once had the characters play older PC's from the get go. They found themselves in a strange area with no memories of who or what they were. As the campaign progressed, they recalled more about themselves and their capabilities (leveling up without trainer, in middle of a game, without paying and time).
It was an excellent idea that played very well with the group. They really liked the idea of unveiling the mystery of who they were while simultaneously making them as the game progressed.