I'd like to revise my earlier statement about the Elven Curve Blade.
Since it needs to be used twohanded, it'd act more like a Nodachi (or Odachi? *shrug* something twohanded), rather than a single hand draw.
I'm no expert on Iaijutsu, so I'm kind of going by memories of movies and video games, etc, however the technique usually involved a one-hand draw (the other hand controlling the scabbard's angle, etc). This wouldn't work very well with a two-handed only weapon, but would work well with the bastard sword (or katana).
Since the Elven Curve Blade is essentially the same damage as the Bastard sword, with just a bit better critical range, I'd be inclined (as a DM) to allow a feat like this:
Drawing Strike
Requirement: Quickdraw
Benefit: If you draw your weapon and attack immediately, you may treat the first attack as if you were using the weapon with two hands. This does not apply towards weapon that cannot be used with two hands.
Additionally, if you are using a sheathed twohanded weapon, you may draw and attack with that weapon with one hand. You are still considered using two hands for that attack, although any subsequent attacks will require both hands to continue.
Thus allowing an elven curve blade, bastard sword, or even longsword/rapier to be used more effectively "iai"-style. It wouldn't help with a shortsword, however.
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If you plan on going down the Spring Attack/Vital Strike route (to which I suggest picking up Whirlwind as well since it's nice to have the option when surrounded), then Wind/Lightning stance are set up for picking up as well (with the dodge requirement already met).
I could see a Fighter/Rogue half-n-half build being a really good option with those feats. Sneak Attack + Surprise Attack talent means you don't even need to win Initiative for that first strike. Other talents like Bleeding attack will be good too, to make that strike linger. There's some critical feats that could help with that as well (although they are less reliable).
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Me, I spent my youths as a hooligan so I learned to fight first, be a nerd later in life. That works out best as being a nerd when your older is fine...being a holligan when your young is also fine...so I just did it proper like is all :) .LOL, well, not just nerds play D&D, although I certainly was in school. I didn't do martial arts until my mid-twenties, and only for a few years. I'm now in my forties and that expanding middle of mine denies that I was ever a clean, lean, fighting machine <sigh> age is so unfair ...Wow. There have to be more ninjas and bad asses in D&D groups than I've ever seen. It's a wonder jocks ever got a chance to pick on nerds, considering how many Rambos there are in the gaming community, apparently.
;)
I never stopped being a hooligan. Played D&D in the Big House. ;)
Off the top of my head I would say a high Dexterity, Quick Draw, and Weapon Finesse at the very least. Anyone else given this any thought?
Honestly I'd go more along the line of rogue/fighter with QD, high dex, wpn finesse, Improved feint and Vital Strike.
Just make the resheathing or quickdraw, a part of the bluff action.
The 3.0/3.5 L5R book had mechanics for dueling and iaido but truthfully I'd just go with the sneak attack method. (Basically it made the user make a iaido skill check which used a table to determine the number of bonus d6 damage dice.)
I think it's important to note that katanas had two functions.
1) Attacking those of lesser status and, thus, those with little to no armor
2) Symbolism and ornate dueling.
Samurai didn't use katanas while actually at war. They used lances and bows. The katana didn't become the super awesome special weapon until the samurai were mostly disbanded into being a noble class. Likewise, the katana was less a weapon then it was a status symbol.
I think it's important to note that katanas had two functions.
1) Attacking those of lesser status and, thus, those with little to no armor
2) Symbolism and ornate dueling.
Samurai didn't use katanas while actually at war. They used lances and bows. The katana didn't become the super awesome special weapon until the samurai were mostly disbanded into being a noble class. Likewise, the katana was less a weapon then it was a status symbol.
While the Yumi, Yari and Naginata might have been the primary weapons of massed warfare, the Katana, and the Tachi before it, were important weapons of warfare. Assuming them to have been relegated to some "ornate ceremonial duels" / and non-functional in a military role would be... a mistake. It's like pointing out the fact that lances, pikes and polearms were the main weapons in massed western feudal warfare. The sword was still functional and necessary in both the feudal west and east.
While the Yumi, Yari and Naginata might have been the primary weapons of massed warfare, the Katana, and the Tachi before it, were important weapons of warfare. Assuming them to have been relegated to some "ornate ceremonial duels" / and non-functional in a military role would be... a mistake. It's like pointing out the fact that lances, pikes and polearms were the main weapons in massed western feudal warfare. The sword was still functional and necessary in both the feudal west and east.I think it's important to note that katanas had two functions.
1) Attacking those of lesser status and, thus, those with little to no armor
2) Symbolism and ornate dueling.
Samurai didn't use katanas while actually at war. They used lances and bows. The katana didn't become the super awesome special weapon until the samurai were mostly disbanded into being a noble class. Likewise, the katana was less a weapon then it was a status symbol.
Yes...but on both west and east, neither was the "main weapon," if you will, and both were highly elevated through ceremony ;)
Yes...but on both west and east, neither was the "main weapon," if you will, and both were highly elevated through ceremony ;)While the Yumi, Yari and Naginata might have been the primary weapons of massed warfare, the Katana, and the Tachi before it, were important weapons of warfare. Assuming them to have been relegated to some "ornate ceremonial duels" / and non-functional in a military role would be... a mistake. It's like pointing out the fact that lances, pikes and polearms were the main weapons in massed western feudal warfare. The sword was still functional and necessary in both the feudal west and east.I think it's important to note that katanas had two functions.
1) Attacking those of lesser status and, thus, those with little to no armor
2) Symbolism and ornate dueling.
Samurai didn't use katanas while actually at war. They used lances and bows. The katana didn't become the super awesome special weapon until the samurai were mostly disbanded into being a noble class. Likewise, the katana was less a weapon then it was a status symbol.
When you shattered your lance or yari on the first infantryman you ran it into and plowed on into the mass of them I doubt you considered the sword at your side "ceremonial" or "secondary". They held significance because they were important. They were the personal weapons of the knight / bushi. He relied on them for his life. They are a functional and necessary weapon in war.
I just saw an alternate PF Fighter with some class abilities that would work for this build.
http://www.dorkistan.com/PFRPG/classes/fighter.htm
Check out all of the Finesse abilities.
edit: Also the critical strike feature.
You might also check with your GM, maybe he allows the "Sneak Attack Bonus Dice in place of Bonus Feats"-Option from Unearthed Arcana, swapping out the fighter's usual feats for a rogue's sneak attack at the usual levels. That way, you'd have the great attack bonus PLUS the great damage potential PLUS the ability to table-dance in full plate PLUS all that other stuff. Worth a shot. ;-)
When you shattered your lance or yari on the first infantryman you ran it into and plowed on into the mass of them I doubt you considered the sword at your side "ceremonial" or "secondary". They held significance because they were important. They were the personal weapons of the knight / bushi. He relied on them for his life. They are a functional and necessary weapon in war.
Indeed - the rapier was also a weapon of war, for example, employed extensively by both infantry and cavalry in the English Civil War. Later evolutions lead to the sword being almost the only weapon that cavalry would use, save for the lance.
While it was often a secondary weapon in so much as you would use a polearm, a spear or a lance as your primary weapon to make first contact with the enemy, when you got to close quarters they came out and were used in earnest.
When you shattered your lance or yari on the first infantryman you ran it into and plowed on into the mass of them I doubt you considered the sword at your side "ceremonial" or "secondary". They held significance because they were important. They were the personal weapons of the knight / bushi. He relied on them for his life. They are a functional and necessary weapon in war.
And I'm not disagreeing :p
The problem is when samurai - who have this problem far more then knights - are classified entirely around their katanas, with never a single mention to horsemanship, archery, or other weapons. Take a guy in western medieval armor, stick him on a horse, give him a lance, he's still a knight. Take a guy in eastern feudal armor, stick him on a horse, give him a bow, and I gurantee you'll see people claiming that's not a samurai because he's not using a katana.
Yes, the katana was the symbol of the samurai, but not their only weapon, just as the sword was the symbol of the knight, but not his only weapon.
katana is the soul of the samurai!
Oh yes, it had a lot of mystical significance - but it was like the knight's sword in that it was far from his only weapon. Every samurai had a katana and knew how to use it, but many were masters of other weapons they used in preference when they seriously wanted to chop somebody up.
When you shattered your lance or yari on the first infantryman you ran it into and plowed on into the mass of them I doubt you considered the sword at your side "ceremonial" or "secondary". They held significance because they were important. They were the personal weapons of the knight / bushi. He relied on them for his life. They are a functional and necessary weapon in war.And I'm not disagreeing :p
The problem is when samurai - who have this problem far more then knights - are classified entirely around their katanas, with never a single mention to horsemanship, archery, or other weapons. Take a guy in western medieval armor, stick him on a horse, give him a lance, he's still a knight. Take a guy in eastern feudal armor, stick him on a horse, give him a bow, and I gurantee you'll see people claiming that's not a samurai because he's not using a katana.
Which is why the 4WFG Samurai has 4 choices of martial art: Iaijutsu, Kenjutsu, Sojutsu (spear-fighting) and Kyujutsu (Zen Archery); at 11th level they evolve into advanced forms: Battojutsu, Nitojutsu (Two-Sword style), Naginatajutsu (spear-techniques using the naginata and bisento), and Yabusame (mounted precision archery).
Cold Napalm; So you personally disproved Pro Wrestling with use of an "Axe-Kick?" I am not sure if I would respect that claim more or less if you used Korean. NIU was a long time ago, it seems, you mean Dooki-Chigi? What did you do the last time someone switched you standing into the Hurricane Arch? Professional Wrestling is awfully real, my friend. And also, I certainly mentioned armor in my post and gave a suggestions for simulating Iai against an armored opponent. Besides that, not everybody who can wear armor does. Chainmail versus a Katana would not be so wonderful for the guy who thinks drawing cuts don't work on armor. It is a matter of speed, leverage, strength and force--not to forget experience.And grabbing the nards...don´t forget that. And an axe kick isn´t something that is ONLY used in korean martial arts...in fact there are some euro martial arts that use such an action as well...not that it is generally a good thing to use. I´m sure a professional wrestler could kick my butt...but not because of the techniques of professional wrestling, but because he is bigger and faster and in MUCH better shape then I am.
As for your idea of cutting through chain...HAHAHAHAHAHA. Yeah, pretty much any tests that has actually been done says no. Even tests using butted chain on deadliest warrior says no. Much less tests me and other serious students of the sword have done with riveted chain. Hell even axes have trouble cutting through riveted chain. And this is before you add plate and leather and padding to the mix. Even against the lacquered japanese armor, your not cutting through the armor...your gonna try to BYPASS the armor. Not even your professional wrestler will generate the power needed to cut steel with a sword. If you honestly believe that a katana can cut steel, I know for a fact that you don´t study iaido or iaijitsu from any respectable source and quite frankly you think pro wrestling is real so that kinda just drives the point home.
Nice flip-flop