The spell says "arrows and bolts are deflected upwards and miss, while any other normal ranged weapon passing through the wall has a 30% miss chance. (A giant-thrown boulder, a seige weapon projectile, and other massive ranged weapons are not affected)."
what projectiles beside arrows and bolts are there? Doesn't this only affect arrows/ bolts? Or can a dart magically make it through the wall?
The spell says "arrows and bolts are deflected upwards and miss, while any other normal ranged weapon passing through the wall has a 30% miss chance. (A giant-thrown boulder, a seige weapon projectile, and other massive ranged weapons are not affected)."
what projectiles beside arrows and bolts are there? Doesn't this only affect arrows/ bolts? Or can a dart magically make it through the wall?
As you said, darts are one example of another ranged weapon, as are daggers, shurikens, javelins, bolas, slingstones, and blowgun darts.
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The spell says "arrows and bolts are deflected upwards and miss, while any other normal ranged weapon passing through the wall has a 30% miss chance. (A giant-thrown boulder, a seige weapon projectile, and other massive ranged weapons are not affected)."
what projectiles beside arrows and bolts are there? Doesn't this only affect arrows/ bolts? Or can a dart magically make it through the wall?
Actually if we think of ballistics and work it out, an arrow or bolt flying at close range would be fast enough to overcome the wind wall if an eagle can. That's not a very well thought out spell. Darts are thrown and their velocity is no where comparable to crossbow bolt or even an arrow.
I never said it made sense when I was listing other ranged weapons, was just answering the question of what other ranged weapons there are.
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I never said it made sense when I was listing other ranged weapons, was just answering the question of what other ranged weapons there are.
Wasn't aiming any criticism at you Inconvenience I was probably responding at the same time you were. I was just doing a bit of math and the figures don't add up. If an eagle is unaffected when it's covered in feathers and even if it's flying at speed it still would have far less chance overcoming the wind wall than a xbow bolt or arrow.
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The spell says "arrows and bolts are deflected upwards and miss, while any other normal ranged weapon passing through the wall has a 30% miss chance. (A giant-thrown boulder, a seige weapon projectile, and other massive ranged weapons are not affected)."
what projectiles beside arrows and bolts are there? Doesn't this only affect arrows/ bolts? Or can a dart magically make it through the wall?
I went back to my 3.5 PHB and the spell description is pretty much unchanged. Never thought about it before because it doesn't crop up as a spell often in my game and when I'm GMing I tend to be too busy to think through the logic of a given spell description.
It seriously needs a revision.
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The spell says "arrows and bolts are deflected upwards and miss, while any other normal ranged weapon passing through the wall has a 30% miss chance. (A giant-thrown boulder, a seige weapon projectile, and other massive ranged weapons are not affected)."
what projectiles beside arrows and bolts are there? Doesn't this only affect arrows/ bolts? Or can a dart magically make it through the wall?
I went back to my 3.5 PHB and the spell description is pretty much unchanged. Never thought about it before because it doesn't crop up as a spell often in my game and when I'm GMing I tend to be too busy to think through the logic of a given spell description.
It seriously needs a revision.
Maybe the description should say that the magic deliberately targets arrows and xbow bolts but other things are OK. I would say, however that this would be a very lame explanation
what projectiles beside arrows and bolts are there?
I think the spell is intended shut down (medium) archers and gases.
so, for the sake of simplicity, I interpret the spell to mean any thrown or projectile weapon that a medium or smaller creature can wield.I don't think one can "wield" a ballista, trebuchet, catapult, etc.
what about edge cases?
manticore spikes seem to easily fit in the arrow category.
spit missiles seem like they should also be stopped (e.g. ankheg's acid spit, Naga poison spit), but would this also apply to a black dragon's breath weapon? a giant slug's?
what might happen if a PC became large (enlarge person, etc)? I would probably rule that ammunition wouldn't work, but what about a thrown spear, for example?
not that these have ever come up in my games, but now I am curious...
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Windwall affects an eagle the same way it does the ammunition. It alters their course and sends them up in the air to the height of the windwall. The eagle then continues flying after that, able to steer its own course unimpeded. Ranged ammunition can't do that. I see no problem here.
The physics, though not simple for all projectiles, does not add up if we presuppose (as we only have the description to rely on) that the wind is air moving at a certain velocity (i.e. like a gale or some such). There is nothing stating that there is some other magic at work specifically aimed at xbow bolts and arrows, such as Protection form Arrows
An 80lb draw xbow bolt (from a hand held pistol xbow) shoots at a max velocity of 130mph, whereas a 170lb draw (heavy xbow) shoots at a max velocity of 217mph. See Wiki
Bows are a little more complicated because they are not mechanical and rely primarily on the size of the bow, the strength and skill of the user, the weight of the arrow and even the configuration of the fletching. But as an example the typical medieval longbow in the hands of a reasonably competent archer is roughly between 90-120mph. See Medieval Longbow vs Crossbow. I did all the meters/feet km/miles
calculations for easier understanding.
The average eagle has top speeds of anything from 30-50mph, quite a bit short of projectile velocities. Sure it can right itself whereas a projectile cannot I find it hard to swallow that a dart thrown by an expert can achieve 100mph and a thrown spear between 66-98mph once again depending on skill, strength can have a check for deflection when arrows and bolts do not. See Spear ballistics.
To me the xbow bolt and the arrow should have a better chance of penetrating the wind wall than certain other projectiles that are allowed the check, albeit only 30%.
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Arrows and bolts are deflected upward and miss...
Per the spell's description the shots are deflected so that they miss. I'm sure they penetrate the wind wall just fine but miss their intended target. Even a bullet fired from a rifle with a steady crosswind will still miss its target unless compensated for. Mass of the projectile is still a factor as it takes much less force to alter a projectile's trajectory so that it misses its target if it has a small mass.
This is one spell I am not worried about. Much bigger fish to fry.
Arrows and bolts are deflected upward and miss...Per the spell's description the shots are deflected so that they miss. I'm sure they penetrate the wind wall just fine but miss their intended target. Even a bullet fired from a rifle with a steady crosswind will still miss its target unless compensated for. Mass of the projectile is still a factor as it takes much less force to alter a projectile's trajectory so that it misses its target if it has a small mass.
This is one spell I am not worried about. Much bigger fish to fry.
well this spell comes at the same level as protection from normal misses, and I'm picking between the two to shut down archers, it's just that if this spell drops and the opponents are like "switch to darts!" then it's just silly.
It is pretty weird that thrown weapons aren't affected by the spell, but the language seems fairly specific. "Ordinary thrown weapons" could have easily been written in there had anything else been intended.
It is kinda cool since it means alchemists aren't automatically shut down offensively by fickle winds (which is keeping a current battle I'm running interesting), but I don't think that was exactly the intention. So I'm curious what was.
My current (semi-serious) headcanon: They're called fickle winds for a reason. ;D
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Sling bullets too would have "only" a 30% miss chance. A small advantage of the sling over the crossbow, Not much, but together with the simple fact that it will benefit from your strength bonus to damage without the need for a special version of the sling it make it a interesting secondary weapon for people that don't know how to use bow.
Almost all my characters bring one with them for hunting purposes. It don't do anything useful in game terms but it help explain how you use survival for foraging, when needed, without depleting your arrow reserve.