Just wanted to get some feedback on a house rule I've been using with 3.5 for some time now. It's essentially a grievous wound saving throw. If any PC or NPC takes damage that equals more than half of their total maximum hit points (without temporary enhancements such as buffing spells, or potions) I make the person/monster in question roll a fortitude saving throw at a DC 10+(1/4 the amount of damage taken). If they fail the check they fall unconscious from the hideous nature of the damage. I then treat the person/monster as stable, so they aren't still losing hit points (based on the fact that they are still above 0 hit points). If the character makes a DC 10 Constitution check, they regain consciousness, and may immediately rejoin the encounter. Also if they are the target of any heal skill, energy, or magic, they immediately regain consciousness.
Thoughts? Improvements?
Wait.. we don't already have something like this?
I think it's pretty damned awesome.
the only change i would make is that i would use 75% of max HP, other then that this is an excellent house rule
If you bumped it up to 75%, then I would considering altering the DC save.
As in 1/2 damage.
10th Level Barb
100 Hitpoints.
+7 Base Fort Save
17 Con
+10 Fort Save
75 Damage Taken
Okay, we can't do half damage, because then they flat out DON'T have a chance to regain consciousness UNLESS you use the 20 = You do it rule.
Unless you remove the base DC 10 +
As Using the example above, 1/4 of 75 is 18.75, Round to 19 we'll say.
So DC 19 +10 = 29 >.>
At level 10, they would need to roll a 19 just to make it. Which seems sort of reasonable.
At half damage they wouldn't make it at all.
At a DC 19, no plus, they'd only need to roll a 9, close to a 50% chance to stay up or not.
So.. I'm actually opting if you do 75% damage, to STAY at 1/4 damage taken plus d10.
If we go the 50% route. 12.5 Round I'll say to 13.
DC 23, they'd need to at least get a 13 on a d20.
Thus I'd say that the most likable option in my opinion is what the O.P. suggested in the first place. The 50% damage option.
Uhm.. If you want to have that 5% chance to stay conscious then go for 1/2 instead of 1/4
Either way, I will be implementing this house-rule into my campaigns.
Hope my math was right, anyway, thank you O.P.
Just wanted to get some feedback on a house rule I've been using with 3.5 for some time now. It's essentially a grievous wound saving throw. If any PC or NPC takes damage that equals more than half of their total maximum hit points (without temporary enhancements such as buffing spells, or potions) I make the person/monster in question roll a fortitude saving throw at a DC 10+(1/4 the amount of damage taken). If they fail the check they fall unconscious from the hideous nature of the damage. I then treat the person/monster as stable, so they aren't still losing hit points (based on the fact that they are still above 0 hit points). If the character makes a DC 10 Constitution check, they regain consciousness, and may immediately rejoin the encounter. Also if they are the target of any heal skill, energy, or magic, they immediately regain consciousness.
Thoughts? Improvements?
My only concern with this is that it seems like it would make low-level combat really swingy, particularly for Bards, Rogues, Sorcerers, and Wizards. Sorcs and Wizards aren't usually in melee anyway (hopefully), but Bards and Rogues often are.
Imagine a 1st level Rogue, Con 14. He has 8 hp, and his Fort save modifier is +2. If he takes a single hit for 5 points of damage (a reasonable strike from just about anything), then he's got to succeed on a DC 11 Fort save or get knocked out. Even with his +2 bonus, that's still not far from a 50/50 chance of being knocked out. Low-level combat is annoying enough without having this added complication.
I get the point of what you're trying to do, and it might work better at mid-high levels, but at lower levels 1 to 2 good hits by an orc can pretty much render many characters unconscious/dying anyway. I wouldn't use it, personally.
Edit: Since you said you've been using this HR for a while, have you actually used it at beginning levels? Does it work better than I think it would?
I was thinking something like that, but never bothered to run the math.
Good point though, >< Hmm.
Just wanted to get some feedback on a house rule I've been using with 3.5 for some time now. It's essentially a grievous wound saving throw. If any PC or NPC takes damage that equals more than half of their total maximum hit points (without temporary enhancements such as buffing spells, or potions) I make the person/monster in question roll a fortitude saving throw at a DC 10+(1/4 the amount of damage taken). If they fail the check they fall unconscious from the hideous nature of the damage. I then treat the person/monster as stable, so they aren't still losing hit points (based on the fact that they are still above 0 hit points). If the character makes a DC 10 Constitution check, they regain consciousness, and may immediately rejoin the encounter. Also if they are the target of any heal skill, energy, or magic, they immediately regain consciousness.
Thoughts? Improvements?
My only concern with this is that it seems like it would make low-level combat really swingy, particularly for Bards, Rogues, Sorcerers, and Wizards. Sorcs and Wizards aren't usually in melee anyway (hopefully), but Bards and Rogues often are.
Imagine a 1st level Rogue, Con 14. He has 8 hp, and his Fort save modifier is +2. If he takes a single hit for 5 points of damage (a reasonable strike from just about anything), then he's got to succeed on a DC 11 Fort save or get knocked out. Even with his +2 bonus, that's still not far from a 50/50 chance of being knocked out. Low-level combat is annoying enough without having this added complication.
I get the point of what you're trying to do, and it might work better at mid-high levels, but at lower levels 1 to 2 good hits by an orc can pretty much render many characters unconscious/dying anyway. I wouldn't use it, personally.
Edit: Since you said you've been using this HR for a while, have you actually used it at beginning levels? Does it work better than I think it would?
You're definitely right in that at low levels it can/would create some very "swingy" combat with both PC's and NPC's getting knocked unconscious. I probably should have mentioned this in the original post, but I don't usually implement the rule with any group until 4th level and beyond (sometimes later depending on the actual gaming experience of the group and their ability to deal with fallen comrades). Then I've found that even with a quasi-melee class like rogues and bards still have a fair (meaning just, I'm not talking about the percentages) chance to either make the initial save, or at some point with a good roll make the save to get back up, besides the fact that starting at 4th level and beyond any party darn well better have somebody amongst the group that can do some healing (which automatically brings them back to consciousness). I especially like the channel energy ability that Pathfinder has added in, because with good (and neutral that pick positive energy) clerics, it provides the ability to bring up more than one person who may have succumbed to a grievous wound. While we're on it, I've also found that at higher levels it is extremely difficult to even have an attack that does over 50% of max hp worth of damage, so usually these types of wounds only happen in the mid to "early-high" levels, but to me that seems realistic. At low levels just about every wound is grievous and your adventurers are getting their adventuring feet wet, so you don't want them passing out in every encounter, but at mid levels they've been through more than a few battles and should be able to protect themselves from such a devastating wound. At high levels they are well experienced, and more often than not don't ever take such devastating wounds. Which to me makes the rule justified all the more. If you can take off more than half of a level 15 barbarian's hp in one attack, good on you, and he certainly better make that fortitude save or pass the heck out! I also forgot to mention that this rule becomes particularly fun if you have an PC or NPC that can cause bleeding wounds, and critically hits with such a skill or weapon. Then, if the person or monster misses the initial fortitude save they are not only passed out, but also bleeding. Then things get really fun! Thanks for the advice and pointers. Any other thoughts on this rule?
1 to 2 good hits by an orc
Also wanted to point out (I must not have been as clear about this as I thought I was) that this rule only applies where that much damage is taken off by one attack (you can decide whether a two-weapon attack falls under that category or not, I've gone both ways with it). The rationale being that if you did that much damage with one attack, you found a "sweet-spot" and the enemy needs to deal with having taken such a grievous wound (thus the name of the rule). :)
I was doing some research on this type of save as built into other systems and wanted to include some mechanics I found in case others were thinking of implementing. This gives a couple of different options. The first has a regular saving throw called a "Threshold of Pain" that is a designated number. If you implemented that rule you'd need to decide what number to use for each creature based on CR. The higher the number the easier the save.
The second mechanic seems ridiculous but I still wanted to include it just for frame of reference.
Threshold of Pain (ToP) Save: When struck by a single blow exceeding 40% of its maximum Hit Points, a creature must roll this figure or below on a d20 to avoid the debilitating effects of a grievous wound. Creatures with a value of “n/a” need never make a Threshold of Pain save.
For example, an orc with 28 Hit Points needs to make a Threshold of Pain save whenever it suffers 12 points of damage from a single hit (28 x 40% = 11.2, round up because 11 is insufficient to force a ToP save). Because orcs have a Damage Reduction value of 3, the actual blow must be for 15 or more points of damage. Thus if this orc is struck by a longsword for 15 points of damage (suffering 12 points of damage), it must then attempt a ToP save. The orc must roll 6 or below on a d20 or be rendered temporarily incapacitated.
Injury
A character's injury score is equal to 1/2 of their constitution score, rounded down. If an attack would deal a damage equal to or greater than a character's injury score, they have just taken a grievous wound. The character must immediately roll 1d20 plus their constitution modifier, plus their level. If this roll is less than the damage of the attack just suffered, the character is knocked over and can take no actions for 3d6 seconds. This time is spent clutching the wound, screaming, bleeding, and such. The character is considered helpless.
In addition to having to make an injury saving throw, the grievous wound reduces a random attribute by 2 points. This attribute reduction lasts until the grievous wound has been healed. (For simple randomization, roll a 1d6 and count down the attributes as they are listed on the character sheet.)
Just reading through my Core Rulebook and realized I was ninjaed by Paizo a long time ago.
Massive Damage (Optional Rule): If you ever sustain a single attack that deals an amount of damage equal to half your total hit points (minimum 50 points of damage) or more and it doesn’t kill you outright, you must make a DC 15 Fortitude save. If this saving throw fails, you die regardless of your current hit points. If you take half your total hit points or more in damage from multiple attacks, no one of which dealt more than half your total hit points (minimum 50), the massive damage rule does not apply.
The two changes I would make to this rule are to lower the minimum from 50 points of damage to something like 25, so that the rule could still be used even at lower levels. I'd also say that instead of being dead if you miss your fortitude save, that you drop immediately to 0 hit points and are considered dying. Otherwise great optional rule.
I have something similar(i.e. calling for Fort saves) when it comes to critical hits.
I do something similar. I do it like this though: creatures that take 50 points of damage from 1 attack (I normally do it as only 1 attack so 2 weapons wouldn't count) they must make a fortitude save (DC=1/4 the amount of damage rounded up) or they fall unconscious and are dying. Once a creatures HP reaches 100 the amount of HP to do this changes to half of the creatures total HP (so at 100 HP the number would still be 50 but say you have 112 HP you don't have to make a save unless you take 56 points of damage).