Armor for Society Sorcerer?

[VanceMadrox]

I'm thinking about starting up another society character and leaning towards Halfling Sorc with Fey Bloodline. With Light armor prof and arcane armor training feats a 3rd level sorc with a mithral chain shirt can have armor with no arcane spell failure %.

My only question is whether it's worth it or not. In non society games it almost certainly wouldn't be worth it, I'd just go for Bracers of Armor. But with the low level nature of the society along with its purchase limits Having the Chain Shirt would a sorc decent Armor much much earlier than waiting for similar braces.

Any thoughts?

[WelbyBumpus]

VanceMadrox wrote:

I'm thinking about starting up another society character and leaning towards Halfling Sorc with Fey Bloodline. With Light armor prof and arcane armor training feats a 3rd level sorc with a mithral chain shirt can have armor with no arcane spell failure %.

My only question is whether it's worth it or not. In non society games it almost certainly wouldn't be worth it, I'd just go for Bracers of Armor. But with the low level nature of the society along with its purchase limits Having the Chain Shirt would a sorc decent Armor much much earlier than waiting for similar braces.

Any thoughts?

My thought is that a chain shirt gives you the same benefits as a mage armor spell, but with a spell failure chance (eventually, you'll be able to get the feats and the mithral chain shirt to take this to 0%, but your primary concern here seems to be play at low levels). Are you willing to accept that spell failure chance on all your spells in exchange for a "permanent" mage armor, which frees up one of your spells known for something else?

I would say no. But I see how others could say yes.

[VanceMadrox]

At first that's true but a magical chain shirt out does Mage Armor in armor bonus.

And with a Sorc, I doubt I'd ever waste a slot on Mage Armor. A wand would do just fine.

And eventually on the mithral Chain Shirt means 3rd level, which is when I could take Arcane Armor Training.
Which is 6 sessions.

I probably wouldn't use a Chain Shirt at first, would probably use regular studded leather until I can afford the mithril chain shirt.

[Morgen]

10% spell failure isn't too horrific so it's said. I've had to deal with that with my LG sorcerer and it only came up once in a noncombat situation. Though I know a wizard who had it come up a bit more...suppose it depends on how much you like your dice.

[VanceMadrox]

And even that 10% would only be until 3rd level.

Really it's a question of how wothwhile armor is for a sorc over all and whether the feat investment is worth it.

[james maissen]

VanceMadrox wrote:

My only question is whether it's worth it or not.

Any thoughts?

It's not worth it.

Make yourself not be targeted by attacks, and do your job decently. I've seen wizards with ACs near 10 at the levels that PFS stops at and they did just fine. Spending resources to make oneself mediocre is not a decent expenditure.

Use 2 points of PA to get a wand of mage armor or throw down 2k+ gold for a staff of it. That should do just fine for you and others you adventure with that might need some of it.

Now sorcerers are not wizards and are best built upon a theme (or so). If you like the idea of armor and it fits your character then consider it.

But unless pressed to do so, I don't see it as worthwhile for you to do.

-James

[Morgen]

Well when I got up in level I decided that anything that truly wanted to hit me was going to do it and I wasn't going to bother getting into the Armor Class Arms Race of 3.5 by investing my spell slots and energy into things. Best to take a spell or two that gives a straight miss chance (blur for example) and a spell that gets me the heck out of danger (dimension door!) then worry about the whole mage armor/false life/etc combo the wizards usually did.

Saves you on spells/feats and coin too. I wouldn't recommend it in a real game, but organized play tends to have a formula where you can survive a hit or two without dying and then get to some semblance of safety. I'd suggest pushing for a save boosting feat to make sure you can make your fort saves, or something to boost your initiative rather then just some extra armor.

[hogarth]

james maissen wrote:

It's not worth it.

Make yourself not be targeted by attacks, and do your job decently. I've seen wizards with ACs near 10 at the levels that PFS stops at and they did just fine. Spending resources to make oneself mediocre is not a decent expenditure.

Just a note: I've played in a whole table full of characters like that (i.e. "I'll stay at the back while someone else is in front"). It doesn't always work...

But generally I agree; it's not worth investing a whole lot of resources into building up a sorcerer/wizard's AC.

[Majuba]

Go for it - at the early levels my Cleric/Monk had no trouble buying potions of mage armor (2/session is about right), and now a wand. You'll probably want to skip the wand and go right to mithril shirt. This isn't a huge expenditure to keep up either.

Biggest reason to go for it? Society games /always/ have lots of melee, and usually lots of smaller critters, which *will* miss you a lot more if you have a good AC.

[Thod]

Majuba wrote:

Go for it - at the early levels my Cleric/Monk had no trouble buying potions of mage armor (2/session is about right), and now a wand. You'll probably want to skip the wand and go right to mithril shirt. This isn't a huge expenditure to keep up either.

Biggest reason to go for it? Society games /always/ have lots of melee, and usually lots of smaller critters, which *will* miss you a lot more if you have a good AC.

VanceMadrox

I think it heavily depends how you play. In my mind not everything needs to be min/maxed. So if you like it - go for it !!

I've had now at least two occasions where I had the choice to either go against >1 enemy (i'm talking second level) on my own or to play save and sacrifice other members of the party and jeopeadize the overall goal. I'm glad that I have dodge, Dex. 14, did have Mage Armour in both cases and in one an additional Shield spell on me.

In both cases at least one fighter was already down and needed a potion while the other fighters were just hanging on. Stepping in the fray on my own with a colour spray close distance. in one occasion even taking an AoO for ideal coverage.

So in my view it mainly depends on the use of spells and style of play if high AC is worthwhile or not. Colour Spray or Burning Hands can be devastating on a group of low level monsters - but with the range and not being able to cast them second row you want to ensure you have a decent AC.

If you prefer to throw Magic Missiles from second row on the other hand, an investment in high AC seems not worthwhile.

But most importantly - do what you feel is right for your character.

Thod

[Auke T]

Don't forget you can have the chainmail enchanted as well, or have a party member cast Magic Vestment on it. Combine it with a mitril buckler (and enchant that as well), a ring of protection and an amulet of natural armor and you've got a decent AC without having to spend rounds casting spells.

A friend of mine once had a sorcerer who cast shield in his first round, mage armor in his second round and blur in his third round. And yes, usuallt by that time the rest of the party had taken care of the enemies...

[james maissen]

Auke T wrote:

Don't forget you can have the chainmail enchanted as well, or have a party member cast Magic Vestment on it. Combine it with a mitril buckler (and enchant that as well), a ring of protection and an amulet of natural armor and you've got a decent AC without having to spend rounds casting spells.

A friend of mine once had a sorcerer who cast shield in his first round, mage armor in his second round and blur in his third round. And yes, usuallt by that time the rest of the party had taken care of the enemies...

Yeah, but you're then looking at spending a feat and appreciable cash to achieve what 1-5pts of AC via magic vestments?

Cast a mage armor, it lasts hours/level and it doesn't cost you a feat or cash.

And yeah I recall wizards and clerics that would spend entire combats 'preparing for it' and doing nothing. Its certainly something to avoid.

In general not making yourself an easy target (e.g. fly above melee combatants, go invis, hide, disguise yourself) is the best defense a wizard or sorcerer can do.

-James

[Valor958]

You've got to look at more than just the pure statistics of it all as well. Depending on whether your session is going to be more RP or combat based can determine how much you need to put into your background. For a purely spell based sorc I would avoid physical armor, even a mithral chain shirt. On a broad spectrum, a majority of wizards and sorc will rely on spells and ingenuity to take care of most situations with little need for physical protection. IF something were to happen then there are obviously several magical protection options to fall back on, if you don't choose to just invis or fly away.
Now, in my personal experience with making characters I usually go out of my way to make unique (even at the cost of certain beneficial aspects), I have had 2 sorc that wore armor. One is basically a copy of the other from an early game, and the latter has been built for an upcoming local game I plan to attend... next week actually. A sorc with draconic bloodline is very commonly used as a setup leading to the Dragon Disciple. In a 5-9lv campaign i'm heading to, i have a lv7 sorc (5sorc/2d.disciple) who wears an enhanced mithral shirt as he takes pride in his draconic heritage to combat some foes up close and personal. At lv7 he has 11AC without spell bonuses. Though the armor can be restricting and offers some drawbacks, it fits perfectly into his personality and background.
A long example maybe but it illustrates an example where RP can trump min/maxing your char for performance. In a well rounded group min/maxing shouldn't be entirely necessary since others should be able to fill in any gaps in performance.

[sieylianna]

james maissen wrote:

Make yourself not be targeted by attacks, and do your job decently. I've seen wizards with ACs near 10 at the levels that PFS stops at and they did just fine. Spending resources to make oneself mediocre is not a decent expenditure.

YMMV. In campaigns before Pathfinder Society, I have run into tournaments and judges who target ambushes, assassins and other surprise attacks on unarmored or lightly armored characters. I haven't run into this in PFS so far, but my highest character just made 3rd. I'm a proponent of mithral chain shirts for my casters as a defense against this situation.

[james maissen]

sieylianna wrote:

YMMV. In campaigns before Pathfinder Society, I have run into tournaments and judges who target ambushes, assassins and other surprise attacks on unarmored or lightly armored characters.

So look like someone in heavy armor instead.

Seeming and Veil are wonderful spells because then you can have the entire party looking like different members.

-James