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I mean a lack of cordiality in situations where there is clearly on a small group interacting though, such as holding a door. People from more high-density areas tend to not be as cordial in those situations even when the number of people decreases.I'll have to take your word for it. I've only lived in a small town for any length of time. My visits to cities, in the US and abroad, didn't give me any kind of impression that urban dwellers were more or less rude than others.
Cordiality is expected here, which in an ironic way makes us less empathetic at times (at least it seems that way to me).I've noticed that too, at least with people who have similar expectations of social interaction. It's trivial to pretend that one's being very nice by following the conventions of politeness. Style before substance. I've seen people defend the most amazingly abhorrent notions (and I'm not talking about just abhorrent to a member of the far left such as myself) and then become outraged because someone uttered a profanity.
+1
I'm not from a small town, but the suburbs surrounding St. Louis are different than most others. St. Louis County wields a lot more power than the city economically, which is the inverse of anywhere else.
Its rather annoying when people just do without thinking. Still, if someone does something polite for me I make sure to thank them. After all, its only polite. ^_^
I mean a lack of cordiality in situations where there is clearly on a small group interacting though, such as holding a door. People from more high-density areas tend to not be as cordial in those situations even when the number of people decreases.I'll have to take your word for it. I've only lived in a small town for any length of time. My visits to cities, in the US and abroad, didn't give me any kind of impression that urban dwellers were more or less rude than others.
Cordiality is expected here, which in an ironic way makes us less empathetic at times (at least it seems that way to me).I've noticed that too, at least with people who have similar expectations of social interaction. It's trivial to pretend that one's being very nice by following the conventions of politeness. Style before substance. I've seen people defend the most amazingly abhorrent notions (and I'm not talking about just abhorrent to a member of the far left such as myself) and then become outraged because someone uttered a profanity.
Did you visit Paris? I found Parisians to be quite rude and hostile.
Did you visit Paris? I found Parisians to be quite rude and hostile.
I mean a lack of cordiality in situations where there is clearly on a small group interacting though, such as holding a door. People from more high-density areas tend to not be as cordial in those situations even when the number of people decreases.I'll have to take your word for it. I've only lived in a small town for any length of time. My visits to cities, in the US and abroad, didn't give me any kind of impression that urban dwellers were more or less rude than others.
Cordiality is expected here, which in an ironic way makes us less empathetic at times (at least it seems that way to me).I've noticed that too, at least with people who have similar expectations of social interaction. It's trivial to pretend that one's being very nice by following the conventions of politeness. Style before substance. I've seen people defend the most amazingly abhorrent notions (and I'm not talking about just abhorrent to a member of the far left such as myself) and then become outraged because someone uttered a profanity.
Did you speak the lingua franca? If not, then they can be jerks akin to NYers, or so I have heard. That said, I'm from NY as you know, so I'd be interested in seeing any comparisons you make between us and them.
Did you speak the lingua franca? If not, then they can be jerks akin to NYers, or so I have heard. That said, I'm from NY as you know, so I'd be interested in seeing any comparisons you make between us and them.Did you visit Paris? I found Parisians to be quite rude and hostile.
I mean a lack of cordiality in situations where there is clearly on a small group interacting though, such as holding a door. People from more high-density areas tend to not be as cordial in those situations even when the number of people decreases.I'll have to take your word for it. I've only lived in a small town for any length of time. My visits to cities, in the US and abroad, didn't give me any kind of impression that urban dwellers were more or less rude than others.
Cordiality is expected here, which in an ironic way makes us less empathetic at times (at least it seems that way to me).I've noticed that too, at least with people who have similar expectations of social interaction. It's trivial to pretend that one's being very nice by following the conventions of politeness. Style before substance. I've seen people defend the most amazingly abhorrent notions (and I'm not talking about just abhorrent to a member of the far left such as myself) and then become outraged because someone uttered a profanity.
Not really. I was obviously American, and they made it clear they didn't care for me. I was surprised that Paris smelled worse than Venice too. I also got food poisoning on both my trips to Paris, so I really have no good memories of the place.
As for NY city, I've actually never gotten out of the airport there or Tokyo, so I can't really compare, but I doubt I could like it less than Paris.
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There's one woman I work with who can't stand me because I always open the door, ask if she would like a hand, etc. I'm positive she thinks it's because she's in a wheelchair. I'd love to drop the PC speak in the work place and tell her, "It's not because you have wheels, it's because you have ovaries.
Matthew, it's one thing to show courtesy as a default. But if a coworker tells you she doesn't appreciate it, for whatever reason, then it stops being courtesy and becomes ribbing, instead.
Did you speak the lingua franca? If not, then they can be jerks akin to NYers, or so I have heard. That said, I'm from NY as you know, so I'd be interested in seeing any comparisons you make between us and them.Did you visit Paris? I found Parisians to be quite rude and hostile.
I mean a lack of cordiality in situations where there is clearly on a small group interacting though, such as holding a door. People from more high-density areas tend to not be as cordial in those situations even when the number of people decreases.I'll have to take your word for it. I've only lived in a small town for any length of time. My visits to cities, in the US and abroad, didn't give me any kind of impression that urban dwellers were more or less rude than others.
Cordiality is expected here, which in an ironic way makes us less empathetic at times (at least it seems that way to me).I've noticed that too, at least with people who have similar expectations of social interaction. It's trivial to pretend that one's being very nice by following the conventions of politeness. Style before substance. I've seen people defend the most amazingly abhorrent notions (and I'm not talking about just abhorrent to a member of the far left such as myself) and then become outraged because someone uttered a profanity.Not really. I was obviously American, and they made it clear they didn't care for me. I was surprised that Paris smelled worse than Venice too. I also got food poisoning on both my trips to Paris, so I really have no good memories of the place.
As for NY city, I've actually never gotten out of the airport there or Tokyo, so I can't really compare, but I doubt I could like it less than Paris.
YIKES...A place that smells worse than Venice? Wow. Then again, one of my coworkers from Lipton, where I interned at over a summer in college, once said she could "smell the NY" on me. At the time I thought it was a veiled insult, possibly racist in nature, but as I got to know her I discovered she was just a townie with a VERY well developed sense of smell.
Any idea what caused the food poisoning? Cuz that sounds awful.
The first thing I saw in Venice was a dirty diaper and a used condom floating down the canal with the other trash. In spite of that I really enjoyed all of Italy.
I think it was the restaurant we ate dinner at each time because several people with us got ill.
I would rather drink the water in Mexico than eat in Paris.
The first thing I saw in Venice was a dirty diaper and a used condom floating down the canal with the other trash. In spite of that I really enjoyed all of Italy.
I think it was the restaurant we ate dinner at each time because several people with us got ill.
I would rather drink the water in Mexico than eat in Paris.
Venice sounds like Coney Island!
Sorry to hear about the bad food- I will inform my wife, as she may be spending a few months there. Was it the cooking or what was served?
Went to Bob Evans yesterday after getting Donna to the doctor, again.
We had an exceptionally good waitress, named Mary. She was very attentive, cheerful and responsive. The service was excellent, and I left a healthy tip.
Well Donna's tea tasted sour (Donna freely admits it was her, not the tea) and Mary was going to take it off. While we're waiting, her and the manager were adjusting the bill. I asked him if he was the manager.
When he confirmed it, I told him, "Well I wanted you to know Mary did an incredible job and was a joy to have wait on us. She's easily one of the best waitresses we've had in a long time, and you're lucky to have her."
Well she was all flustered and embarressed and just not used to the compliment. Is it so unusual anymore to tell a manager/supervisor how good a person is, as opposed to when they suck?
P.S. She also blushed quite nicely too. Which wasn't my intent, but funny none the less.
A little late to the thread...
I assume Donna is your wife/girlfriend?
If so, I bet I know why Mary was so flustered and embarrassed (and blushed).
Niceness/politeness is synonymous with flirting.
Odds are, Mary was trying to wrap her mind around why you were flirting with her in front of your lady, and on top of that had to do it right in front of her manager too.
Yes, American society has degraded enough that a simple compliment is taken as only given because the giver is into the receiver. That's probably all there is to it.
Did you visit Paris? I found Parisians to be quite rude and hostile.
I found the Parisians among the most polite Europeans I encountered. They were also quite patient with my high school French.
Speaking of food, though, I got rather ill off a mystery meat burger I scored from a cafe in Venice.
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Did you visit Paris? I found Parisians to be quite rude and hostile.I found the Parisians among the most polite Europeans I encountered. They were also quite patient with my high school French.
Speaking of food, though, I got rather ill off a mystery meat burger I scored from a cafe in Venice.
If you ordered a burger in Venice, you got what you had coming ;)
They were nowhere near an ocean, so the seafood is questionable to begin with, but what made him think that he was going to get good cajun food in Africa?
When in Africa, eat African food. When in China, eat Chinese food. When in Italy, eat Italian food. The restaurants take a lot more care when they are making local food for local people, as opposed to foreign food for tourists.
If you ordered a burger in Venice, you got what you had coming ;)
Speaking of food, though, I got rather ill off a mystery meat burger I scored from a cafe in Venice.
I went to Europe for the sights and history, not to try a new lubricant on my alimentary canal. :)
Really great pizza in Italy, though. Narrowly missed a confrontation with a local mafiosi when we went back to the same place the next day and it was payment time. We were headed to their table when the owner quickly interposed himself.
The first thing I saw in Venice was a dirty diaper and a used condom floating down the canal with the other trash. In spite of that I really enjoyed all of Italy.
I think it was the restaurant we ate dinner at each time because several people with us got ill.
I would rather drink the water in Mexico than eat in Paris.
Venice sounds like Coney Island!
Sorry to hear about the bad food- I will inform my wife, as she may be spending a few months there. Was it the cooking or what was served?
I honestly don't know. I presume it was a hygiene issue, but the food was quite forgettable. The projectile discharges where less forgettable. I was not impressed with French food at all, but my recollection may be shaded by the food poisoning.
I loved the food in Italy and Germany, and I think I liked dutch food too.
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Speaking for myself, I kind of dislike it when people use Sir/Ma'am. To me it doesn't come across as a sign of respect, but rather of subservience. I can't stand it when from the very get-go someone artificially tries to establish a sense of inequality in a relationship.I'm the same way. Sir and Madame are over the line of acceptable amounts of politeness in my book. There's a difference between the absence of rudeness and being deliberately insulting, however much some I've known want to deny it.
See, when I was a kid, I was always taught to call people "Sir" or "Ma'am." No exceptions. If I slipped up, I got cuffed over the head. Same goes for if I didn't apologize profusely for any possible slight.
Now, as an adult, I physically cannot break those habits. TO THIS DAY, I have an INCREDIBLY difficult time addressing anyone by their first name. If you've got a problem with my mental conditioning, I'm sorry, but there's nothing I can do about it. You'll just have to go through life not liking me.
See, when I was a kid, I was always taught to call people "Sir" or "Ma'am." No exceptions. If I slipped up, I got cuffed over the head. Same goes for if I didn't apologize profusely for any possible slight.
You have my condolences, for what little they're worth.
Now, as an adult, I physically cannot break those habits. TO THIS DAY, I have an INCREDIBLY difficult time addressing anyone by their first name. If you've got a problem with my mental conditioning, I'm sorry, but there's nothing I can do about it. You'll just have to go through life not liking me.
Okie-dokie. :)
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We won't get into where I hear 'sir/ma'am' I don't want to scare folks ;-)
It's always been a case with me to use it as a default sign. But I'm old fashioned. I joke about having 'young miss...' stuck in my head, but it's not much of a leap from, 'miss' which I do use.
I do know of one company who actually brands 'sir/ma'am' as racist and doesn't allow it for their reps *rolls eyes* Drives my roommate crazy since she's Southern through and through.
Personally I don't like first names with Customer Service. You don't know me, don't call me 'Matthew' or worse 'Matt' unless I say so (I'm usually quick to say so). When my work relaxed the policy, it too forever to get used to hearing this:
"May I have your name?"
"Robert Smith."
"And how can I help you today, Bob?"It's like nails on a chalk board to me.
But then I also hold the door for a lady, and try to pull out the chair so a lady can sit. I'm an old fashioned sexist pig. *shrug*
** spoiler omitted **
I've always found it incredibly difficult to address people by their last name. Coming from a culture where it's impossible to address someone by their last name, the default becomes ones first name. So I wouldn't address someone as Mr. Gunnarsson or Mrs. Jónsdóttir. It would be Herra (Mr. or sir) Sigurður og Fröken (miss) Helga, and even that's stretching things because honorifics haven't been used in Iceland in over 50 years. The formal way to address someone here is to simply use their first name.
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Okie-dokie. :)
Now, as an adult, I physically cannot break those habits. TO THIS DAY, I have an INCREDIBLY difficult time addressing anyone by their first name. If you've got a problem with my mental conditioning, I'm sorry, but there's nothing I can do about it. You'll just have to go through life not liking me.
Sorry if that came off sounding harsh--It's been a rough couple of days.
Sorry if that came off sounding harsh--It's been a rough couple of days.
It didn't. I'm ok with the options offered, but I hoped a little flippancy would soften my own post. I didn't mean to sound defensive.
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It didn't. I'm ok with the options offered, but I hoped a little flippancy would soften my own post. I didn't mean to sound defensive.
Sorry if that came off sounding harsh--It's been a rough couple of days.
You didn't sound defensive. I merely realized that I sounded like more of a dick than usual.
I like how realistic it is when you sound like a dick.
What? That's a compliment.
You didn't sound defensive. I merely realized that I sounded like more of a dick than usual.
No harm done, then! Shall we hug, kiss, and shag a bit in celebration of our happy accord? :)
I like how quickly you go from fighting to propositioning.
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I blame Facebook.
For the thread--
Having lived all over the US and the world, I'd say complements are regional (though this may be changing as regionalism in the US is eclipsed by the dissolution of traditional barriers--thanks to the freeway and the internet!). I make a personal effort to complement and extend the benefit of the doubt when service is less than; but I'm in a minority. :-(For TEMS--
Here's my take, Shiny--
I'd argue that people in general are no less social in 2010 than they were in, say, 1990--way back in the dark ages of the internet, when mobile phones were just smaller than your tibia, and 12kbps was sci-fi fast. If anything, modern tech has made the average Joe more sociable--Now, I keep up with otherwise mere acquaintances who would have fallen to the wayside in the pre-facebook days of yore. The people on the street who ignore each other today, who seem physically attached to their cells, ignored each other 30 years ago and only had the voices in their heads to talk to. The internet cafes brimming over with teens focused on the monitor in front of them isn't much different from the teens of the 80s and 90s in arcades who were intently focused on a Pac-Man or Asteroids console. The library patrons parked in front of computers today aren't too different from the patrons of the 80s who parked themselves in front of fiche readers; and the comparisons can go on and on. I'd say though, if you eschew changes in communication, you'll simply be left behind. Fireside to cave wall, newspaper to radio, TV to internet, letters to email--they're all just evolutions in interaction.
Stuff Samnell and I said about not liking to be called Sir/Ma'am.
See, when I was a kid, I was always taught to call people "Sir" or "Ma'am." No exceptions. If I slipped up, I got cuffed over the head.
Now, as an adult, I physically cannot break those habits. TO THIS DAY, I have an INCREDIBLY difficult time addressing anyone by their first name.
Hmm, well if you want, I suppose we could repeat your childhood conditioning to reserve the effects, but some might misconstrue our intent for hostility. ;)
If you've got a problem with my mental conditioning, I'm sorry, but there's nothing I can do about it. You'll just have to go through life not liking me.
See, my friends get around this point of formality by simply calling me Elf (yes, they capitalize the "E" in Elf while speaking). It's been working pretty well so far. Of course, it might be kinda odd calling the other 99.9999999% of the population Human, but hey...
EDIT: FWIW, I thought you were just being funny when you said we shouldn't like you. No dickishness was detected here, but I can feign offense if you like. ;)
I like how quickly you go from fighting to propositioning.
I blame the naughty British teen drama I've been watching. It's corrupted my morals. It's also induced me to drink, have sex, set fire to my hair, steal coffins, and lead funeral directors on high-speed chases through downtown Bristol. Will someone please think of the adults when they're writing these things?
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I tend to save 'sir' and 'ma'am' for older family members, co-workers and / or people I'm interacting with at their jobs (waitstaff, checkout clerks, etc.). People I meet at parties or on the street, not so much.
When I was young and working in a yacht club (in Oklahoma, go figure), there was one very drunk woman who took me to task for not calling her 'ma'am,' but I put a stop to it by refusing to use the contraction and calling her 'madam.'
Apparently, she didn't remember what ma'am stood for. Or that she was living in America, where we don't have social classes, so that 'classy' people like herself can't make themselves feel special by bullying social inferiors.
Then she picked a fight with the chef. Then she picked a fight with the manager. Then she stormed out, and came back in saying that she'd fallen in the parking lot and it was our fault that we didn't have good enough lighting out there and that she was going to sue.
She was like a really, really rich version of someone you'd see on Jerry Springer... Fascinating in a Courtney Love train-wreck sort of way. I almost expected to hear Marlon Perkins voice in the background as the manager attempted to calm her down. "Now watch as Jim attempts to corner the beast..."