i am designing a new base class, it will be kind of a mix between a spy and a con man.
right now this is all i have, 3/4 base attack, d8 hd, 6+int skills and i am giving them both fascinate and suggestion as the bard gains it.
i would love to hear any ideas to give these guy's
i do not want to give these guys any actual spells.
Play a charismatic rogue?
i would prefer to come up with my own class, it is something i enjoy doing.
my one real problem is i have a very rough idea of the class but no real idea of what to give them.
not really helping
I too like crafting my own classes the only problem is that what your asking for is not different enough from existing classes to necessitate a new class. Perhaps a multiclass bard/rogue would be what your looking for and you won't have to worry about breaking the system?
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That's pretty much what we're trying to tell you in our own silly ways.
You described it effectively as a bard without spell casting so I suggested a bard that couldn't cast spells. It has all of the features you want after all.
Given how much room we have to customize the classes we do have between our stats, skill points and feats, you really have to go pretty far to justify a new class.
There is also the problem of wanting to turn a character concept into a character class. A spy or con-man could be practically anything, though I think a paladin would probably have a hard time. Anyone else can take ranks of charisma based skills and be effective like that.
When your looking to make a new class look at what kind of game mechanics you want to enter into the games that don't already exist before you just throw out all the classes we've got.
i understand what your saying but if you would humor me and throw out some ideas for me for some class abilities.
You might want to look at the Spy (or was it Agent?) class published for free by Privateer Press. It was made for 3.5, and was very much made for 'social stealth'. It included mechanics for fabricating false identities and using them to con people.
i understand what your saying but if you would humor me and throw out some ideas for me for some class abilities.
I'm afraid I'm going to agree with everyone else here. Your class abilities for a spy/conman are already there with the Bard and Rogue classes. Everything else is down to feat and skill choices. Any class abilities I would throw out are already present in the core classes.
The only bit of positive input I can give is try tracking down a copy of
1. Dragon 316 which has an artical about spys in D&D 3.5 called Cloak and Dagger.
2. Dragon 319 Spying and Divination magic items.
3. Dragon 322 Stylish, Sneaking and Stealthy.
4. Dragon 327 Mordern Magic which details stuff like Mirrors of Communication (Mobile phones) and Slate Folio (PDA)
These articles plus either a Rogue or Bard should make a decent enough spy.
Actually a Monk could do the job just as well.
Well ... mechancially, a Monk would pull stat points away from a pretty crucial area for this sort of thing - Cha.
I *think* that Rogue would be the best bet (has all of what you're talking about), BUT (and here's where everyone weighing in can help him) maybe what you're needing is just more Rogue Talents specifically designed around "con man" in theme.
So, mechanically, what kind of Rogue Talents can we suggest/create to be con-man specific?
Maybe some form of Greater Major Magic (to get the suggestion-like effects?)
Maybe a full-round action to talk/communicate with a target to force it to act as if under a suggestion spell? {skill check to initiate interaction?}Something like Will save vs. DC = 1/2 class level + cha mod to resist? Maybe give it *multiple times taken ==> additional uses/day? Maybe limit the duration a bit (1 hr/level is pretty sick - reduced to a few minutes? or 1 min/level?)
Taking Skill Mastery even 1 time would net all the social interaction skill solidly and allow "take 10's" on their skills.
"Spy" stuff is already nicely covered pretty well (especially sneak attack for offense). Maybe ... add Hide in Plain Sight to the talents list?
In the interest of preserving the Bard - maybe delaying "Fascinate" for this kind of concept until a much later level? Like the higher version of Rogue Talent? And at that, make it act like a 1st level Bard at best (can improve from there - say DC 10 +1/4 character level+cha)?