I have been trying to find out if melee touch attacks can be made using dex without Weapon Finesse, and if not, whether Weapon Finesse works with melee touch attacks.
Now using strength to reach out and poke someone with a finger makes not the slightest amount of sense, but since this is a rules question, that's neither here nor there.
I've seen a few critters in the bestiary with touch attacks based on dex without weapon finesse.
I would like a RAW answer please. Rule 0 answers are not appreciated.
I have been trying to find out if melee touch attacks can be made using dex without Weapon Finesse, and if not, whether Weapon Finesse works with melee touch attacks.
Now using strength to reach out and poke someone with a finger makes not the slightest amount of sense, but since this is a rules question, that's neither here nor there.
I've seen a few critters in the bestiary with touch attacks based on dex without weapon finesse.
I would like a RAW answer please. Rule 0 answers are not appreciated.
OOh I know the answer. Touch attacks do not qualify for weapon finesse. They are not listed in weapon finesse. However you are touching with your hand, which is a natural weapon, and does qualify for weapon finesse, so by RAW vampiric touch = yes, flame blade = no. By common sense yes all you have to do is touch them so being fast is better than being strong(i.e. being able to hit them and do damage through their armor)
So why do some creatures with melee touch attacks use dex instead?
RAW---> melee attacks are based on strength, touch or otherwise.
All melee attacks? Even from a character with weapon finesse wielding say, a dagger, or his fist? I disagree.
Without special training all melee attacks are based on strength, touch or otherwise would be a more accurate statement.
So why do some creatures with melee touch attacks use dex instead?
Can you provide (an) example(s), to save the rest of us trying to fine one?
I actually forget but I'll go look. I'm pretty sure I found some while I was trying to find the answer to this question.
Stirge is one, but there's some exception for tiny things or smaller? Incorporeal things also use dex, but I guess having no strength gives them free weapon finesse equivalent.
Stirge is one, but there's some exception for tiny things or smaller? Incorporeal things also use dex, but I guess having no strength gives them free weapon finesse equivalent.
The Stirge has Weapon Finesse as it's only feat.
Incorporeal creatures are covered under the Universal Monster Rules and indeed use Dex instead of Str for a number of things.
I also think Tiny and smaller creautres use Dex instead of Strength for attacks by default, don't they?
I don't see any rules to that effect. The only Tiny creatures that I was able to find in a quick run-through of the PRD (Poison Frog & Stirge) both have Weapon Finesse. Swarms are made up of Tiny or smaller creatures as well, but they have their own special rules.
I also think Tiny and smaller creautres use Dex instead of Strength for attacks by default, don't they?
That applies to CMB calculation. However, many of these creatures have Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat.