I'm putting the finishing touches on a 10 level Cloistered Cleric (UA) for PFRPG. Cloistered Clerics are limited to light armor and no shields.
I have his AC up to 23 with a chain shirt +3, +1 deflection, +1 luck, +1 natural armor, and +3 from dex.
I can afford something else for AC with perhaps a +1 divine bonus or I can get a belt of +2 con.
We need a knowledge skill heavy character so I can't switch to Dwarven tanking cleric, but this DM is known for very tough encounters, so I'm trying to make him as survivable as possible.
Thanks in advance!
Well, if you have a Feat coming up grabbing Shield Proficiency is no problem. You can then take Shield Focus for +1 AC, and it looks like you don't have Dodge yet?
Dropping your Armor Enhancement down a notch would leave you well able to Enhance the Shield for better net AC and maybe get a DEX +2 in addition to the CON belt...?
And also, if you're not planning on being a melee combatant, you don't actually need shield proficiency to get the AC bonus out of them, non-proficiency just gives you an attack penalty and penalty to physical skills. So if you don't care about that (or can drop your shield when you need to do that stuff), you can use a Heavy or even Tower Shield if you want. Same with Armor as well, though that's not as quick to drop, i.e. if you need to Climb or whatever.
A Monks Robes might help, by losing the Chain Shirt. Other than that, nothin off the top of my head. Possibly going into either Divine Oracle (Complete Divine) or a level of Monk?
Otherwise, ranks in Acrobatics?
If we ever get this group together to play, and I can keep the Dwarf alive, I plan on sticking with Cloistered Cleric. It's just too good in terms of role play for this particular character, but that is a pretty cool idea. I haven't looked at Divine Oracle in ages.
I'm basically trying to pick between a +1 AC or +10 HP unless I'm missing some other handy option.
I will probably try to use potions if invisibility to hide, heal and buff when I can as he's a support and healing kind of guy.
Well, if you have a Feat coming up grabbing Shield Proficiency is no problem. You can then take Shield Focus for +1 AC, and it looks like you don't have Dodge yet?
Dropping your Armor Enhancement down a notch would leave you well able to Enhance the Shield for better net AC and maybe get a DEX +2 in addition to the CON belt...?
And also, if you're not planning on being a melee combatant, you don't actually need shield proficiency to get the AC bonus out of them, non-proficiency just gives you an attack penalty and penalty to physical skills. So if you don't care about that (or can drop your shield when you need to do that stuff), you can use a Heavy or even Tower Shield if you want. Same with Armor as well, though that's not as quick to drop, i.e. if you need to Climb or whatever.
Alas my feats are all spoken for by regional, healing and item creation. This guy is completely geared toward support.
The idea of carrying a shield for defense and discarding it at need really hadn't occurred to me. My only real concern would be touch healing and buff spells. I don't see where one can drop a shield for free in combination with a move like drawing a weapon. I like the idea though.
Thanks!
How about a mithral buckler? Toss on a +1 or so....
Cool.
The DM says an item that casts shield with a command word is cool, so I can get that pushing my AC up to 27 if I get a chance to use it.
I'm still curious what is better at 10th level 23/27 AC, +1 AC or +10 HP.
Any thoughts?
:)
How much is your current HP?
The DM says an item that casts shield with a command word is cool, so I can get that pushing my AC up to 27 if I get a chance to use it.
I'm still curious what is better at 10th level 23/27 AC, +1 AC or +10 HP.
Any thoughts?
If you're heavily concerned about defense, consider a Ring of Blinking. It does depend, however, on your planned attacks during combat - if you're primarily healing then you should be fine since even if you miss with your touch heal spell, you'll retain the charge for next round, and so on.
+1 AC will generally reduces hits by somewhere between 7% and 20% (that's needing an 7 to 16 to hit you).
You can invert that, and find the proportional value of hp, so at 7%, 10 hp are equally valuable when your hp are 142. At 10%, 100. At 20%, just 50. Of course hp are worth a bit more, since other things can affect you than attacks.
Con belt would also increase your Fort saves. I'd say just pick up a Heavy shield +1 (if you can afford it) for +3 AC, and get the Con belt if your hp are at least 80 or so.
+1 AC will generally reduces hits by somewhere between 7% and 20% (that's needing an 7 to 16 to hit you).
You can invert that, and find the proportional value of hp, so at 7%, 10 hp are equally valuable when your hp are 142. At 10%, 100. At 20%, just 50. Of course hp are worth a bit more, since other things can affect you than attacks.
Con belt would also increase your Fort saves. I'd say just pick up a Heavy shield +1 (if you can afford it) for +3 AC, and get the Con belt if your hp are at least 80 or so.
Cloistered clerics have wizard BAB and HP. If I went with a tower shield the -2 for tower shield and -10 ACP to hit penalty for non proficiency would be crippling even for touch spells. The -2 ACP associated with a large shield wouldn't be as bad, but could still be an issue with my 5 BAB.
Speaking from experience, I wouldn't spend the money worrying about AC. Instead, take some of the other advice posted here and work toward things like cloaks of displacement. One point of AC can give you anywhere from 0-5% reduction in the damage you take, depending on how high the BAB of an attacker is, but a 20% miss chance from a cloak? Good defense, right there. Also, stay away from people trying to kill you. Let me assure you, it hurts. I'm doing the support thing myself, though I manage from time to time to unload divine wrath, but as you're the knowledgable one (in my group, that is also me) you might see if there's something to help out in the arena. And remember that a headband to boost your Wisdom and/or Charisma can't hurt either!
Thanks for the input everyone!
It's important to note that, especially for casters like Cloisted Clerics, AC is the worst type of defense. It scales horribly and is way too binary. Get some spells and defensive items that work outside of AC and you're set.
I would probably take Toughness over +1 AC no matter what level/ HP,
and probably put my Favored Class Bonus into HPs as well.
Any sort of miss chance and/or 'alternative defenses' (including Invisibility and Sanctuary) would be great if you can get them. If you're mostly 'support' and won't be targetting enemies as often (i.e. 'attacking'), plain old invisibility is a great deal. Likewise, you should have some means to Fly.
Cloistered clerics have wizard BAB and HP. If I went with a tower shield the -2 for tower shield and -10 ACP to hit penalty for non proficiency would be crippling even for touch spells. The -2 ACP associated with a large shield wouldn't be as bad, but could still be an issue with my 5 BAB.
I wouldn't suggest a Tower Shield, but a MW or magic Heavy Shield is only -1 ACP. That's without any special materials.
Also, as long as 1 AC makes any difference, it makes greater than 5% difference in damage. Hitting 18/20 instead of 19/20 is 5.3% less, while hitting 9/20 instead of 10/20 is 10% less. Hitting only on 20 is 50% better than 19-20 :)
Get a mithral heavy shield. No ACP no problems to anything.
I think he was also worried about the non-proficiency attack penalty/ACP, though it doesn't sound like the character concept is one that's going to be mixing it up in melee to be doing offensive touch spells in the first place, so I would agree with the Mithril Heavy Shield recommendation. Of course, taking Shield Proficiency Feat gets rid of all the non-proficiency penalties.
I think he was also worried about the non-proficiency attack penalty/ACP, though it doesn't sound like the character concept is one that's going to be mixing it up in melee to be doing offensive touch spells in the first place, so I would agree with the Mithril Heavy Shield recommendation. Of course, taking Shield Proficiency Feat gets rid of all the non-proficiency penalties.
A mithral heavy shield has no ACP, so there is no "non-proficiency" penalties. Unless they changed that in pathfinder.
A mithral heavy shield has no ACP, so there is no "non-proficiency" penalties. Unless they changed that in pathfinder.
Hmm... I think I was mixing up the rules changes for mithril/materials and medium/heavy armor for proficiency and movement purposes. But yeah, using a shield is a pretty good idea for this type of character.