| kridak |
Hi everyone
My son is playing a rogue and i thought we had both figured out sneak attack but reading through here i am starting to think we are wrong.
When you sneak attack and you have say 2 primary attacks and 1 off hand do you get all 3 attacks as sneak attacks?
What is confusing me is a couple of things from the players guide.
1. It says you get sneak attacks when your opponent is flat footed or flanked.
On the first round of initiative if my son has the better iniitiative i assume all 3 attacks work because the enemey is flatfooted UNTIL his turn, yet i read somewhere james said only the first attack is flat footed then the person knows about the other person, yet i can find this nowhere in the books? I took it as being until you get your intitaive your are flatfooted.
Flanked
My son has 2 other fighters in the group and he is always trying to flank and do sneak attacks. Does he get all 3 or just 1?
Very confused.
Jody
Tom Baumbach
|
If the conditions for sneak attack are met when the attack is made, then sneak attack is applied.
1. It says you get sneak attacks when your opponent is flat footed or flanked.
On the first round of initiative if my son has the better iniitiative i assume all 3 attacks work because the enemey is flatfooted UNTIL his turn, yet i read somewhere james said only the first attack is flat footed then the person knows about the other person, yet i can find this nowhere in the books? I took it as being until you get your intitaive your are flatfooted.
All three attacks would get sneak attack dice; I'm not aware of any errata that changes this (but frankly I'd like to be proven wrong).
Flanked
My son has 2 other fighters in the group and he is always trying to flank and do sneak attacks. Does he get all 3 or just 1?
Again, all three attacks get sneak attack dice.
azhrei_fje
|
You're probably remembering the notes regarding invisibility.
Assuming the defender is not flat-footed... As soon as the first attack happens, the attacker becomes visible. While invisible all attacks are sneak attacks (the defender is not flat-footed, but they are denied their Dex bonus to AC), but when you turn visible that penalty no longer applies so the remaining attacks do not add sneak attack damage.
| cwslyclgh |
yet i read somewhere james said only the first attack is flat footed then the person knows about the other person, yet i can find this nowhere in the books?
I believe James was talking specifically about the case of an invisible attacker when he said that.
If invisible from the use of an invisibility spell after your first attack you become visible and thus your opponent no longer loses his Dex bonus to AC against your attacks (one of the benefits granted by invisibility). Unless, of course, he is still flat-footed because it is the first round of combat and he hasn't acted yet.
| Father Dale |
A rogue can add sneak attack damage to any attack when either:
a) the target is denied its dexterity to AC against the rogue's attack, or
b) the rogue is flanking the target.
Its important to note the difference between 'flatfooted' and 'denied dex to AC.' Its the loosing dex to AC that triggers the sneak attack, not the flatfootedness. Being flatfooted is just one of several ways to be denied dex to AC. Others include, being unaware of the attack (attacker is hidden or invisible, or target is blind), being stunned, being paralyzed, being unconcsious, being helpless. Succesfully feinting a target causes it to lose its dex to AC as well. There are other ways to lose dex to AC too; its a decent sized list.
Flatfooted is a special condition that occurs at the beginning of a combat encounter. Any character whose first turn hasn't come up in the initiative yet is flatfooted. As a result of being flatfooted, such a character loses its Dex to AC against all attacks. (The term flatfooted sometimes gets used in the rulebook for cases where it really should say denied dexterity to AC, as sometimes even the game designers get confused. But basically, unless referring to the start of a combat encounter, it should be 'denied dex to AC' and not flatfooted.)
Note that a character with uncanny dodge will not lose his dex to AC if he is flatfooted. Also, a character with the Blindfight feat will not lose his Dex to AC against melee attacks from an invisible or hidden attacker. Those are ways to negate the ability of a rogue to deal sneak attack damage in a lot of circumstances.
Also note that a character with improved uncanny dodge cannot be flanked except by a rogue who is at least four levels higher. (This means that the attacker must have four or more levels in classes that grant the sneak attack ability over the levels that the target has in classes that grant the uncanny dodge ability.)
If the rogue is unable to see the target clearly, he can't make a sneak attack. This usually means if there is any type of concealment, such as from dim lighting or darkness, or fog, sneak attack won't work. (Although a rogue with darkvision isn't subject to concealment effects due to poor lighting and can still get sneak attacks that way.)
Some creatures are immune to sneak attacks, but they are few in number. Basically only oozes, elementals, and incorporeal creatures are immune to sneak attacks.
Easiest way to go about seeing if sneak attack applies is to see if one of the two conditions above is met--flanked or denied dex to AC--and then see if any exceptions preventing the sneak would apply (such as concealment, or an ability that negates the flank or denial of dex to AC).
Júlíus Árnason
|
Thanks everyone this clears it all up.
I appreciate everyones help ahve a great day.
You're not the only one to have this problem. My group and I played for 8 years allowing only one sneak attack per full attack even if the full attack qualified for a sneak attack. None of us are sure why we did this, the consesus seems to be that we mistakingly thought that it was only allowed once for all attacks, but we can't point to a single source and say "this told me that it wasn't allowed".
The funny thing is that all this time I played a character, a rogue/knifefighter who relied heavily on sneak attack, and even with this limitation he was still one of the most effective party members. Also, now that he can get sneak attack on every attack if he qualifies for it then he's just too good to be true :P (of course though he had to die a few sessions after we realized this).
| Tikael |
You're not the only one to have this problem. My group and I played for 8 years allowing only one sneak attack per full attack even if the full attack qualified for a sneak attack. None of us are sure why we did this, the consesus seems to be that we mistakingly thought that it was only allowed once for all attacks, but we can't point to a single source and say "this told me that it wasn't allowed"
My group did the same thing and it was not until switching to pathfinder that we looked back through our 3.0 and 3.5 books and realized we had no idea where that rule had come from.