If a player picks up a cursed item that bestows a negative level. Or wears an intelligent item of the opposite alignment. How readily do they notice the negative level?
Do you secretly keep track of this and adjust their roles? Describe them as feeling under the weather and lethargic? Allow for some kind of check or save to notice what's wrong? Hold up a giant sign that says -1 AWESOME by the player?
Just looking for some thought or RAW regarding this.
If a player picks up a cursed item that bestows a negative level. Or wears an intelligent item of the opposite alignment. How readily do they notice the negative level?
Do you secretly keep track of this and adjust their roles? Describe them as feeling under the weather and lethargic? Allow for some kind of check or save to notice what's wrong? Hold up a giant sign that says -1 AWESOME by the player?
Just looking for some thought or RAW regarding this.
Do you remember where, in the second Lord of the Rings movie, Pippin attempted to sneak a peek at the black crystal ball Gandalf was carrying? Remember what happened to him when he grabbed it?
It's THAT noticeable.
Haha, well that's one way to play it out. Any reason you do it that way?
Although mechanical stats are out-of-game, generally we assume the characters know how good they are/aren't at something.
If an item makes a character worse at everything, there's a good chance that it would be noticed. That said, such an item could compensate with some kind of overconfidence charm making the character not realize the change.
Ultimately, it's really up to the DM to determine how to incorporate self-awareness into his campaign, or the player to decide how to roleplay such a change in his character's ability.
Come up with something that works for you, make sure it's described with flavor, and the players will appreciate the imagery.
Haha, well that's one way to play it out. Any reason you do it that way?
We do it this way because if you don't let a player know that a piece of his character's soul is being ripped apart, it is generally considered unfair to the player.
Negative levels generally stem from something draining away your life and energy (energy drain) or from something truly traumatizing (picking up an inappropriately aligned item, or dying). This leads me to believe that it is pretty obvious to the character what is happening to them, even if only on some base level of understanding. It's kind of like what Neo said in The Matrix Reloaded...
Morpheus: Smith?
(Neo nods his head, winded)
Morpheus: Now there's more than one of him?
Neo: A lot more.
Link: But how? How can that be possible?
Neo: I don't know. Somehow he's found a way to copy himself.
Morpheus: Was that what he was doing to you?
Neo: I don't know what he was doing. But I remember what it felt like.
Trinity: What?
Neo: It felt like I was back in that hallway... it felt like dying.
Intriguing comments. I'm more opening a discussion for how GM's handle this matter. Unless it's a rather obvious affect, such as a negative level from a vampire I usually keep it behind the screen. Often describing how things the character was once good at seem more difficult and the like. Until they become aware of the source.
I don't like the idea of;
-I pick up the greatsword
*and then instantly*
-Oh no I can't do things as well as before I better get rid of it
*drops sword*
We as people don't instantly know that we have the flu, and even when we've figured out what we have we aren't always sure what exactly it is. We can't look at our character sheet and go, "Oh, that's pancreatic cancer from too much soda." Even though you might progressively feel worse and be less capable of what you once where.
I agree with Treantmonk - you, as DM, can play this any way you like. If you hold the character sheets and tell players how damaged they feel ("Your fighter is bleeding profusely and barely on his feet, Bob") instead of letting them monitor their exact Hit Points - then describing the feeling of lost levels is appropriate.
My players handle their own stats, etc. so I describe the feeling of whatever the attack might be and then give them 'the numbers'. Personally, I wouldn't do the descriptive route only - because it could be cause for bad feelings from the player. Even if you feel you described the damage enough for the player to get themselves to a Cleric for a Restoration, the player may not pick up on it. After fighting with weakened shots for 3 weeks, the player could well be pissed that you "didn't give him enough" information about his character's condition - whether that belief is just or not.
And some attacks could have dramatic effects that players would consider really unfair. Imagine the character gets exposed to a persistent poison that does a fair amount of CON damage over 20 rounds. After the initial dosing, you tell him that his character feels 'weak' and is 'winded from even minor efforts' (stamina is dropping). The character decides to rest. Since he is not exerting himself, additional CON damage could go unnoticed aside from feeling 'tired'... until his CON flatlines and you announce, "I'm sorry Ray, your Wizard just died." I don't know about your players but my group would consider that grossly unfair even if it is realistic.
Creative Director
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I would say that a PC would know immediately if he gained a negative level from picking up a bad-touch item. Partially because negative levels affect everything you do (all those d20 rolls!). But also because the GM has enough to deal with that adding an element of micromanaging what a negative level suffering PC ACTUALLY rolled would make most GMs cry. It would make ME cry, at least.
Hiding things like that from the players just makes the game unnecessarily complicated.
But also because the GM has enough to deal with that adding an element of micromanaging what a negative level suffering PC ACTUALLY rolled would make most GMs cry. It would make ME cry, at least.
+1, at least for a sit-down face-to-face game. It's less of an issue for a play-by-post because you've got more time to do everything.
I shudder to think of trying to keep track of multiple PCs with hidden negative levels in a series of fights. There's also the matter of the -5 hit points to keep track of, which considering I don't have my players' current or maximum hit points written down anywhere is problematic.
Intriguing comments. I'm more opening a discussion for how GM's handle this matter. Unless it's a rather obvious affect, such as a negative level from a vampire I usually keep it behind the screen. Often describing how things the character was once good at seem more difficult and the like. Until they become aware of the source.
I don't like the idea of;
-I pick up the greatsword
*and then instantly*
-Oh no I can't do things as well as before I better get rid of it
*drops sword*We as people don't instantly know that we have the flu, and even when we've figured out what we have we aren't always sure what exactly it is. We can't look at our character sheet and go, "Oh, that's pancreatic cancer from too much soda." Even though you might progressively feel worse and be less capable of what you once where.
To be fair, if you could pick up a sword and instantly go from perfectly healthy to the full height of flu symptoms, I'm fairly certain you actually would notice it right away, and a negative level is worse than the flu by several orders of magnitude. Negative levels affect EVERYTHING you do.
As always, the "it's your game, so you make the rules" caveat applies, but to me not informing the players about negative levels falls somewhere in the same category as rolling up their stats secretly.
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I personally might treat different sources of negative levels in different ways. If a life-draining undead bestows a nengative level, the visable effects might be different than if a cursed weapon bestows one. Perhaps the negative level bestowed by one cursed weapon takes the form of a loss of confidence. Another weapon might surround the wielder with a burst of negative energy when first touched. Life-draining undead might cause the character to become pale and sluggish. I suggest a variety of differnt effects for negatuve level effects.
So if receiving a negative level is "obviously harmful", how would a succubus's energy drain + suggestion for another energy drain work? Is it an exception?
So if receiving a negative level is "obviously harmful", how would a succubus's energy drain + suggestion for another energy drain work? Is it an exception?
It's the suggestion part... you know you were hit by the negative energy... you don't necessarily know where it came from... and all the pretty lady is asking for is just one more kiss good bye...