A sad day


Customer Service

Dark Archive

It is with heavy hands on the keyboard and regret in every letter that I must ask you to end all my subscriptions.

Unfortunately, the toll inspection fees here in Denmark have become to high for me to manage, to a point where a $20 shipment costs me an extra $40 to get through customs. Though I love my monthly Paizo shipment, this is too much for me.

I have, with very few exceptions, been fond of the subscription model. I have purchased several books this way that I would not otherwise have bought, and been plesently surprised. My monthly package from Paizo has been a great joy, although I often bought more than I intended to.

If, at any point in the future, you will be able to offer different options on what you write on the front of the packages for international shipment, I will definintely be back restarting all subscriptions.

Best regards

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Entropi, this is really strange. I live in Poland, and as far as I know the entire EU has lifted import customs on books from US. In my three years of Paizo purchases I never had a single issue with a package being held by customs or charged any additional costs.

Perhaps the problem is at the Danish end ? Maybe the customs are unaware of the regulations ?

Liberty's Edge

In the US, Internet Sales Tax has a great many consumers very, very pissed. If we had customs penalties like that, there might be actual revolution.


I can vouch for the Danish customs imposing a draconic VAT. I send the occasional care package of gaming supplies and neat food items to a friend or two over there. I found out that they charge a huge amount of money on the items. I scaled back the packages and now I send money to cover the VAT. :(

Liberty's Edge

Entropi wrote:

It is with heavy hands on the keyboard and regret in every letter that I must ask you to end all my subscriptions.

Unfortunately, the toll inspection fees here in Denmark have become to high for me to manage, to a point where a $20 shipment costs me an extra $40 to get through customs. Though I love my monthly Paizo shipment, this is too much for me.

I have, with very few exceptions, been fond of the subscription model. I have purchased several books this way that I would not otherwise have bought, and been plesently surprised. My monthly package from Paizo has been a great joy, although I often bought more than I intended to.

If, at any point in the future, you will be able to offer different options on what you write on the front of the packages for international shipment, I will definintely be back restarting all subscriptions.

Best regards

About 50% of my packages from Paizo seems to be subjected to toll inspection and subsequently with a fee (I live in Denmark too). That is why I would really like Paizo NOT to divide larger packages into to... The last major shipment from Paizo had me pay an additional 40$ since I had to pay the fee twice.

Any chance at all that Paizo could collect the toll and vat to get rid of the toll inspection fee?


Gorbacz wrote:

Entropi, this is really strange. I live in Poland, and as far as I know the entire EU has lifted import customs on books from US. In my three years of Paizo purchases I never had a single issue with a package being held by customs or charged any additional costs.

Perhaps the problem is at the Danish end ? Maybe the customs are unaware of the regulations ?

Gorbatz, goods arriving from the US into the EU are not subjected to VAT only if the VAT value of the products is 10 EUR or lower. If you have a VAT that is 20 or 25%, then a shipment worth 40 EUR (shipping cost included) will be subject to VAT. During the last months, a tipical shipment from Paizo was 50+ USD, which is roughly 40+ EUR. Also note that if a shipment contains items falling into different VAT levels, the highest is used for the whole package. So for example, if a package contains books (usually privileged VAT) and a CD (usually normal VAT), even the VAT content of books will be calculated with the normal VAT. AFAIK the cards and maps for example are not books but games. This means that if you are a subscriber to both the maps and the books, your shipment may easily end up being witheld by customs.

Liberty's Edge

In Denmark the vat is 25%, but the fee from the custom service is what is killing subscribers here (about 25$ on each package excluding vat).


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Ah, you are of course right about applying the highest VAT to all contents, I think the German customs office do the same.

Maybe it would be possible for Paizo to ship maps and cards and other stuff separately from the books to overseas customers?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Oh yes, now I see the whole picture. Denmark has a horrible VAT for books - 25%, highest in the entire EU. Poland, UK and Ireland have 0%.

Seems like a good reason to join some campaign for VAT reform in Denmark !

Liberty's Edge

Not to highjack Entropis thread, but the vat is ok to me, it is the fee from the custom service that is way to hígh, as it often doubles the price for the book shipment.


Stegger wrote:
Not to highjack Entropis thread, but the vat is ok to me, it is the fee from the custom service that is way to hígh, as it often doubles the price for the book shipment.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you only pay the fee of the customs service if you have to pay VAT and so the shipment is held and there is a customs process.

Liberty's Edge

Thats true, but here in Denmark you pay 25% vat on everything, and it is applied to all imported stuff outside EU if its value is above something like 15-18 US $... as far as I know..


Stegger wrote:
Thats true, but here in Denmark you pay 25% vat on everything, and it is applied to all imported stuff outside EU if its value is above something like 15-18 US $... as far as I know..

Well, than as far as I can see it, you should have your stuff shipped to someone in an EU Ms other than Denmark and ask him/her to put it in an envelope and send it to you. Or if you live near the border, open a PO box in the other country and go get it once a month.

Dark Archive

Or, Paiso could stop writing on the front of the box what it contains. That way it passes through customs without trouble almost every time.


Entropi wrote:
Or, Paiso could stop writing on the front of the box what it contains. That way it passes through customs without trouble almost every time.

Actually that would be against the law, while my proposal is not...


Stegger wrote:
Not to highjack Entropis thread, but the vat is ok to me, it is the fee from the custom service that is way to hígh, as it often doubles the price for the book shipment.

Definitely. I don't mind paying our 25% VAT (the books are still cheaper coming from the US). It's the $28.50/€21 handling fee that's the problem.

Our customs duty for books are also 0%.
Any imported goods from outside the EU worth more than $14.75/€10.75 (including shipping costs) are subject to Danish VAT.
So, even if I get a shipment of just one book, e.g. a Companion book that's less than $10 (with the Pathfinder Advantage), with shipping it's most likely going to go over the $14.75 limit, I still have to pay the full $28.50/€21 handling fee, instantly doubling the cost of the book (even before VAT is calculated).
Unfortunately there is no practical way for us to calculate and pay the VAT ourselves. There is a way to do it, but it requires handing in forms to the customs bureau with a detailed list of what's being shipped to you (not the hard part), its exact price (not a problem either) AND when exactly it'll arrive at a Danish border/customs control (THAT is the problem).
That's usually not a problem for big importing companies, but it's a problem for common people like us.

Dark Archive

Gray Eminence wrote:
Entropi wrote:
Or, Paiso could stop writing on the front of the box what it contains. That way it passes through customs without trouble almost every time.
Actually that would be against the law, while my proposal is not...

Is there a law that says that you have to write on the front of the box what it contains?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Generally, yes. If you are shipping abroad merchandise you have to declare its contents for the purpose of customs and security issues. Remember that some countries (dunno about the US in particular) have outgoing customs as well.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Entropi wrote:
Is there a law that says that you have to write on the front of the box what it contains?

It's called a customs declaration. Not declaring your imports to avoid fees and taxes is called "smuggling".

Paizo Employee Director of Sales

Entropi wrote:
Gray Eminence wrote:
Entropi wrote:
Or, Paiso could stop writing on the front of the box what it contains. That way it passes through customs without trouble almost every time.
Actually that would be against the law, while my proposal is not...
Is there a law that says that you have to write on the front of the box what it contains?

Yup.

Paizo Employee Director of Sales

Entropi wrote:

It is with heavy hands on the keyboard and regret in every letter that I must ask you to end all my subscriptions.

Unfortunately, the toll inspection fees here in Denmark have become to high for me to manage, to a point where a $20 shipment costs me an extra $40 to get through customs. Though I love my monthly Paizo shipment, this is too much for me.

I have, with very few exceptions, been fond of the subscription model. I have purchased several books this way that I would not otherwise have bought, and been plesently surprised. My monthly package from Paizo has been a great joy, although I often bought more than I intended to.

If, at any point in the future, you will be able to offer different options on what you write on the front of the packages for international shipment, I will definintely be back restarting all subscriptions.

Best regards

I have canceled your subscriptions. I hope that you will be able to find some alternative manner to obtain the materials. Perhaps you can simply get the PDFs? We do not offer a PDF-only subscription, but all you'd need to do is regularly come back and make the purchase manually.

Thanks,
cos

Dark Archive

The sollution is called "Friendly Local Game Store", and is great alternative to online shopping. But, I'll probably buy less books this way, and I won't get PDFs for free.

Btw, a few people admittet to being from Denmark in this thread. You guys should join our Pathfinder Society Denmark group on Facebook.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Zaister wrote:

Ah, you are of course right about applying the highest VAT to all contents, I think the German customs office do the same.

Maybe it would be possible for Paizo to ship maps and cards and other stuff separately from the books to overseas customers?

Not only would that add a lot of additional complexity, but it would probably cause some other issues—for one thing, international packages over a pound that aren't at least 50% bound printed matter would have to go International Priority instead of the relatively inexpensive standard rate, and that could cost folks more in additional shipping than they'd save on inspection fees.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
Not only would that add a lot of additional complexity, but it would probably cause some other issues—for one thing, international packages over a pound that aren't at least 50% bound printed matter would have to go International Priority instead of the relatively inexpensive standard rate, and that could cost folks more in additional shipping than they'd save on inspection fees.

Thanks for the reply, Vic. You are probably right. It was just a thought that came to mind.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Vic Wertz wrote:
Zaister wrote:

Ah, you are of course right about applying the highest VAT to all contents, I think the German customs office do the same.

Maybe it would be possible for Paizo to ship maps and cards and other stuff separately from the books to overseas customers?

Not only would that add a lot of additional complexity, but it would probably cause some other issues—for one thing, international packages over a pound that aren't at least 50% bound printed matter would have to go International Priority instead of the relatively inexpensive standard rate, and that could cost folks more in additional shipping than they'd save on inspection fees.

Gary just corrected me on that... internationally, it's 4 pounds before things have to go Priority.


Entropi wrote:

The sollution is called "Friendly Local Game Store", and is great alternative to online shopping. But, I'll probably buy less books this way, and I won't get PDFs for free.

Btw, a few people admittet to being from Denmark in this thread. You guys should join our Pathfinder Society Denmark group on Facebook.

Couldn't find such a group...

Dark Archive

try this.


Entropi wrote:
try this.

Strange that it didn't show up when I searched for it... oh well, I've joined now. :-)

Dark Archive

This is no good. I've been walking around without a subscription fo a few weeks now, and life is a little more pale. I look at my mailbox, and I just don't get the same feelings of joy and anticipation anymore. I don't care how much customs cost me, I just have to get back my subscription. I'm sorry for all the trouble I sent you through to cancel my subscriptions and all, and hope there are no bad feelings.

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