Simulacrums immune to mind affecting effects?


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

For your reference...

Simulacrum
School
illusion (shadow); Level sorcerer/wizard 7
Casting Time 12 hours
Components V, S, M (ice sculpture of the target plus powdered rubies worth 500 gp per HD of the simulacrum)
Range 0 ft.
Effect one duplicate creature
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

Simulacrum creates an illusory duplicate of any creature. The duplicate creature is partially real and formed from ice or snow. It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only half of the real creature's levels or HD (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD). You can't create a simulacrum of a creature whose HD or levels exceed twice your caster level. You must make a Disguise check when you cast the spell to determine how good the likeness is. A creature familiar with the original might detect the ruse with a successful Perception check (opposed by the caster's Disguise check) or a DC 20 Sense Motive check.

At all times, the simulacrum remains under your absolute command. No special telepathic link exists, so command must be exercised in some other manner. A simulacrum has no ability to become more powerful. It cannot increase its level or abilities. If reduced to 0 hit points or otherwise destroyed, it reverts to snow and melts instantly into nothingness. A complex process requiring at least 24 hours, 100 gp per hit point, and a fully equipped magical laboratory can repair damage to a simulacrum.

...Since simulacrums are COMPLETELY LOYAL, only PARTIALLY REAL, and an ILLUSORY SPELL EFFECT are they effectively immune to enchantments, compulsions and other effects that might turn them against their maker?

Shadow Lodge

I'd say for the most part, yes. The part about being only partially real referes specifically to the Illusion subtpe [shadow]. That means that you are taking a part of the plane of shadow and literally crafing it into something physical. So, even if the target successfully saves an disbeleives the illusion, it actually is real and can still affect them. As oppossed to an illusionary fighter that hurts hem until they realize it is just an illusion.

Most spells and affects that would normally cause someone to gain control of the illusion, (like Dominate Monster) would not work, or at least not work in their full capacity. Notethat itisn't that they are immune to the spell, just some affects of it. One the other hand, thing like Command, which force it to take certain actions might work, like fall down, or drop, whatever. They wouldn't be able to make the illusion attack the original caster, but possibly other things until the original caster said no.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

James was kind enough to answer many of my simulacrum questions here.

Apparently, sims are only immune to mind-affecting effects if the base creature is.


While they are not immune to mind-affecting effects I would say that the "At all times, the simulacrum remains under your absolute command." means that no amount of mind-control should be able to force them to act against your direct order. Or at least require opposed Charisma check between its creator and its controler when both shout/telesend their contradictory orders to the poor confused illusionary snowman.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

An opposed Charisma check to see who the Sim follows makes sense to me.


A though occured to me that dominating self-created simulacrum is a viable and benficial option: you can command it to fail save and voluntarily drop SR, if any and gain telepathic communication to send commands as well as ability to gain information about its sensory input through concentration. And it gets no saving throws against any commands as obeying all your commands is part of its nature.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Drejk wrote:
A though occured to me that dominating self-created simulacrum is a viable and benficial option: you can command it to fail save and voluntarily drop SR, if any and gain telepathic communication to send commands as well as ability to gain information about its sensory input through concentration. And it gets no saving throws against any commands as obeying all your commands is part of its nature.

Very cool idea. I might just do this with a witch who makes sims of herself--and they all have the Coven hex so they can boost each others' caster levels at will.

Magic Jar can be a lot of fun when used on sims too. You are never truly in harm's way and retain full use of your spellcasting and hex abilities (if not your hit points and saves) while you adventure in their body.


Telepathic bond would be better in short terms as it allows two-way communication but has shorter duration than dominate. Permanent telepathic bond would be better but costs extra in addition to simulacrum.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Gah! What happened? I thought witches could cast simulacrum. Was it removed since the playtest?

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