This is just something for you to think about for a while. With the country STILL in an economic down turn, I want to know what gamers feel would be a good price to sell the upcoming Pirates of the Bronze Sky for? How many pages for how many dollars? What seems fair? Tell me what you think.
PS: I have to stop writing thing while trying to avoid the boss.
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This is just something for you to think about for a while. With the country STILL in an economic down turn I was to know what gamers free would be a go price to sell the upcoming Pirates of the Bronze Sky for? How many pages for how many dollars? What seems fair? Tell me what you think.
What is this about ?
This is just something for you to think about for a while. With the country STILL in an economic down turn I was to know what gamers free would be a go price to sell the upcoming Pirates of the Bronze Sky for? How many pages for how many dollars? What seems fair? Tell me what you think.
So, are you feeling subconsciously generous, Louis? ;)
This is just something for you to think about for a while. With the country STILL in an economic down turn I was to know what gamers free would be a go price to sell the upcoming Pirates of the Bronze Sky for? How many pages for how many dollars? What seems fair? Tell me what you think.
Well page count is one thing, pdf or hardcopy too, but from what I just saw on your page about it the setting looks fun and the artwork is top-notch.. So standard prices would certainly apply. However if you're worried about the economy hurting sales then feel free to lower the cost a little. I can't hurt as long as you keep it at the point where you're still going to turn a profit.
Be sure to cut and paste together a teaser with just enough setting material and some partial feats.. Like 5-10 pages of that with maps and stuff for free. I don't know if those encourage sales in others but they do for me.
Well page count is one thing, pdf or hardcopy too, but from what I just saw on your page about it the setting looks fun and the artwork is top-notch.. So standard prices would certainly apply.
My thought is what is the "standard price"? I think RPG should be no more than $20. At $20 anyone can pick it up and start having fun and spreading the gospel of RPGs.
Be sure to cut and paste together a teaser with just enough setting material and some partial feats.. Like 5-10 pages of that with maps and stuff for free. I don't know if those encourage sales in others but they do for me.
So do you think our Obsidian Twilight previews are OK?
My thought is what is the "standard price"? I think RPG should be no more than $20. At $20 anyone can pick it up and start having fun and spreading the gospel of RPGs.
Well hard back book can be in the $30 range, that's reasonable now, $20 for a 100+ page book is great, not more than $15 for a 96 page count.
As a local game store guy I hate when the difference between the pdf and the hardcopy is enough that it discourages the solid market sales.
So do you think our Obsidian Twilight previews are OK?
I liked it! Great layout, cool concept and something any gamer can grasp and love.
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This is just something for you to think about for a while. With the country STILL in an economic down turn, I want to know what gamers feel would be a good price to sell the upcoming Pirates of the Bronze Sky for? How many pages for how many dollars? What seems fair? Tell me what you think.
PDFs. I paid $5.99 for the NeoExodus: A House Divided setting, and would pay that amount if Pirates of the Bronze Sky is similar. If PotBS has significantly more and new content (e.g., flying ship rules, monsters, etc.) and/or there's a lot of color plates, then I'd be willing to part up to $9.95. NOTE: Before I get accused of using the Pathfinder Roleplaying Corebook pdf as my benchmark, "$9.95" is pretty much my tolerance for almost any pdf*. I'm a deadtree lover first and foremost, and pdfs just don't have the tactile "feel" to, IMO, justify higher than that price.
Book. Up to $19.95 is fine.
*If the pdf is from Monte Cook, on the other hand....*
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I buy a ton of 3PP material - I'm not sure if that makes me a good judge of how the average guys views these things, but here ya go.
I believe good material is worth paying for.
Of course that requires that you know what is good!
I love spending $1-3, even $5 on a gamble. But I just have a hard time spending in the $5-10 range. Anything over $10 takes a lot for me to bite and really $20 is a ceiling (although I readily spent more on Slumbering Tsar and The Eamonvale Incursion).
Some company have a good enough track record that I'm willing to support their more expensive endeavors - Tricky Owlbear, Rite Publishing, Genius, Brave Halfling and the likes come to mind (yes, I purposely left LMPjr007 off the list so you wont think I'm just kissing up).
So to answer your question, if you want a broad audience (and you aren't relying on street cred) then I would strongly encourage two versions - the full version at full price and a lite version that is pretty cheap. The Lite version might not have all the classes and races, or might have a level cap, or be missing some of the cooler stuff. Yeah, that makes it more difficult from your standpoint (unless you went into it that way) - but you can come up with something.
I can spend a couple bucks on the Lite version, play the game or really get into the flavor, and then purchase the full version - which means that the Lite version should include a way to get the full version at a discount (another hurdle, I know).
Just do what you did with NeoExodus. Lite version and Full version. $0.99 and if you like it, you upgrade for the difference.
***
DF - I've never heard of Brave Halfling... d20/OGL/PF related stuff?
My guess is that modest pdfs are making more money through more sales.
Floating an OGL example or review on the OGL Wiki might be a good idea too.
Sigurd
The Dithering Fool said
Some company have a good enough track record that I'm willing to support their more expensive endeavors - Tricky Owlbear,Rite Publishing, Genius, Brave Halfling and the likes come to mind (yes, I purposely left LMPjr007 off the list so you wont think I'm just kissing up).
I could give you a big fat kiss :)
On the subject of LPJr, I think with the quality of artwork (I have not sampled the writing) that a solid price point in the longrun is best. a .99 cent thing is not a steak and I like $15-20 steaks from time to time.
Steve Russell
Rite Publishing
If you do a full-blown 160+ page book with a complete setting and lots of new mechanics, then $15 for pdf, $20 for softcover, $25-30 for hardcover.
Louis, rest assured I'll buy the thing as soon as you get it into print. :) Otherwise, do what's best for your company.
You mean you have purchased all these books already? Thanks for the support!
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DF - I've never heard of Brave Halfling... d20/OGL/PF related stuff?
Brave Halfling does a lot of Labyrinth Lord supplements. Lately they've branched out to C&C and Swords & Wizardry (including this sweet White Box edition). They have a nice selection of stuff over at RPGNow.com and a few things HERE
In my case, I've had a tendancy to favour PDFs over printed RPG books over the past two years. It's a question of space and a question of paper (long story). Anyway, when I buy a PDF, I tend to look a the quality of the book (art, layout, content) when I judge the price. A 32 page adventure, I'll generally be ready to pay between 5-10$ depending on the content. For a sourcebook for an RPG I already own, depending on page count, I'll pay anywhere between 7-20 $. For a full blown campaign setting or RPG, including rules, description, artwork, etc. I'll generally pay between 10-25$.
Another factor, that I tend to look at is the price difference between the actual printed book and the PDF. I'm very leery of buying a PDF that is priced very close to the price of the printed book. As James Jacob has stated many times in the reprint threads elsewhere on these boards, printing is a major cost factor in the production of a RPG book. Now, if I'm buying a PDF, I expect to be able to get a discount that reflects the fact that I'm not paying for those printing/shipping/storing costs. It is one of the reasons (not the only one mind you) that I have held up my purchase of further Paizo Adventure Paths after Rise of the Runelords. On an emotional level the $13.99 price tag for the PDF is too close to the $19.99 price tag for the printed version. It is a 30% discount, mind you, which isn't bad. But for some reason every time I look at them, that price just seem high to me.
P.S.: It should be noted that I'm running my group through RotRL and I'm enjoying it alot. I do intend down the road of buying further APs from Paizo. But right now the price tag is set at such a price that, as an impulse buy, it's a no go for me.
Just wondering for all, but if you could by a 16 page weekly or bi-weekly PDF adventure series at a cost of $2.50 each that is something you would be interested in?
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Just wondering for all, but if you could by a 16 page weekly or bi-weekly PDF adventure series at a cost of $2.50 each that is something you would be interested in?
You mean Sidetrek Adventure Weekly?
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You mean you have purchased all these books already? Thanks for the support!
Louis, rest assured I'll buy the thing as soon as you get it into print. :) Otherwise, do what's best for your company.
Well, not all of them... adventure planners are pretty much not my cup of tea, and I don't do d20 Modern stuff much... but I did have several of them, and you just made a series of sales by posting that link! I'm genuinely upset I'd not seen the Prestige Class Cookbook before now...
You mean Sidetrek Adventure Weekly?
NO!!! Sidetrek Adventure Weekly was a "good" initial concept but the biggest issue that held me back from getting it to work the way I really invisioned it was artwork and maps AKA the visiual component. Having tried it twice, I don't think I would ever do something like SAW again.
I would want to delievery the material in a different way. A way that is visually appealing, easy to get out on a regualr basis and engages players and DMs to purchase continuing adventures. I woud like to make something for the RPG gaming industry that works liek comic books. Long term, regular story lines that build off of the work that came previous. That is what I want to do. and for only $2.50 each would be better. A DungeonADay.com is somewhat what I want, but it needs a little work to get it moring in the right direction for me.
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You mean Sidetrek Adventure Weekly?NO!!! Sidetrek Adventure Weekly was a "good" initial concept but the biggest issue that held me back from getting it to work the way I really invisioned it was artwork and maps AKA the visiual component. Having tried it twice, I don't think I would ever do something like SAW again.
I would want to delievery the material in a different way. A way that is visually appealing, easy to get out on a regualr basis and engages players and DMs to purchase continuing adventures. I woud like to make something for the RPG gaming industry that works liek comic books. Long term, regular story lines that build off of the work that came previous. That is what I want to do. and for only $2.50 each would be better. A DungeonADay.com is somewhat what I want, but it needs a little work to get it moring in the right direction for me.
Ah.
Mmmm. I'm not an adventurer person per se (which is why I've never subscribed to SAW or Dungeonaday, preferring to buy in one large book or set). But I'd be willing to look at your model.
What if I offered a "Cheap Ass Version" (No art, no fancy layout, just black text on a white page) and gave you a 80% discount off the cost of the "Standard Version" (Full color, great artwork and layout) for it? Even better, you buy the Cheap Ass Version and get the Standard Version at a discount equal to the price you spent on the Cheap Ass Version?
What if I offered a "Cheap Ass Version" (No art, no fancy layout, just black text on a white page) and gave you a 80% discount off the cost of the "Standard Version" (Full color, great artwork and layout) for it? Even better, you buy the Cheap Ass Version and get the Standard Version at a discount equal to the price you spent on the Cheap Ass Version?
That would be an interesting experiment. But I'd probably leave a couple of things out as I would be concerned that people would just stick with the CAV because the art (of your ususal excellent quality) is not necessary when you have the crunch/fluff to get the campaign launched. Fan-based sites and the forums freebies do speak for themselves.
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What if I offered a "Cheap Ass Version" (No art, no fancy layout, just black text on a white page) and gave you a 80% discount off the cost of the "Standard Version" (Full color, great artwork and layout) for it? Even better, you buy the Cheap Ass Version and get the Standard Version at a discount equal to the price you spent on the Cheap Ass Version?
I think that you would make 30% of what you otherwise would have done. The CAV is actually more valuable to me. I can print it cheaply. It's more readable without the 'pretty' background behind the text. Without fancy formatting, it will probably reflow better for reading on an e-reader.
What if I offered a "Cheap Ass Version" (No art, no fancy layout, just black text on a white page) and gave you a 80% discount off the cost of the "Standard Version" (Full color, great artwork and layout) for it? Even better, you buy the Cheap Ass Version and get the Standard Version at a discount equal to the price you spent on the Cheap Ass Version?
Sounds good, but I would like both. That way I have a good 'on screen' version & a 'printer-friendly' version.
On another note, why don't you do an Undfeatable product that focuses on Eldritch Knights?
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I'm working on a Spelljammer/Eberon campaign that takes place a century or two after the Third Unhuman War. I'm using Shadows of the Spider Moon from Dungeon (RIP) as a starting point but I really want to expand on it and use The Rock of Bral as the home port of the campaign. If this is anything like Spelljammer and makes my job easier I'd pay $10 for the pdf and $30 for the hardcopy when it comes out. A sampler that gives me a better idea of what to expect would absolutely seal the deal. It doesn't have to be extravagant; 8 or so pages of overview with a couple of freebie teasers would do the trick.
I'm downloading the pdfs for Airships and Aerial Adventures from RPGNow as I write this thanks to the positive comments in this thread. I'm also grabbing Swashbuckling Adventures Ships and Sea Battles while I'm at it. I've already got Skull and Crossbones and Corsair but there's a lot of work to be done to pull a functional campaign out of this.
Large sandwich; small bites.
SM
I'm working on a Spelljammer/Eberon campaign that takes place a century or two after the Third Unhuman War. I'm using Shadows of the Spider Moon from Dungeon (RIP) as a starting point but I really want to expand on it and use The Rock of Bral as the home port of the campaign. If this is anything like Spelljammer and makes my job easier I'd pay $10 for the pdf and $30 for the hardcopy when it comes out. A sampler that gives me a better idea of what to expect would absolutely seal the deal. It doesn't have to be extravagant; 8 or so pages of overview with a couple of freebie teasers would do the trick.
I'm downloading the pdfs for Airships and Aerial Adventures from RPGNow as I write this thanks to the positive comments in this thread. I'm also grabbing Swashbuckling Adventures Ships and Sea Battles while I'm at it. I've already got Skull and Crossbones and Corsair but there's a lot of work to be done to pull a functional campaign out of this.
Large sandwich; small bites.
SM
OK, how long have you been sneaking into my computer files & stealing my campaign materials?????
Seriously, I had worked along the same lines. I added Freeport and Skull & Bones material to the list. I also used some of WotC Stormwrack stuff.
Freeport was what I was going to adapt to a space setting as well. Kind of a Rock of Bral replacement. Love Green Ronin black powder rules. Stormwrack I used to adapt some of the ship movement rules. I was using the rules for ship speeds based on wind. Thought that could be adapted for Spelljamming Rating, which were changed to Tactical Rating.
OK, how long have you been sneaking into my computer files & stealing my campaign materials?????
OK, how long have you been sneaking into MY computer files & stealing my Pirates of the Bronze Sky materials?????
OK, how long have you been sneaking into my computer files & stealing my campaign materials?????OK, how long have you been sneaking into MY computer files & stealing my Pirates of the Bronze Sky materials?????
I plead the 5th. Or was I drinking a 5th? I can never keep them two straight.
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Y'all both need to get out of MY head! Seriously! It's dangerous in there...
All kidding aside this is looking like it will be a great campaign. I will definitely be picking it up when it hits the street. I'm reading the air combat thread right now. I would like to know what kind of theme or 'tech level' we can expect? Will it be more mage/steampunk or fantabulous magickal mcguffin? I was having a problem with tech creep when I started on the Spelljammer: Rock of Bral campaign idea. It started to drift from 'Frigates in Space!' to 'Fantasy Space:1889.' I'm thinking of Late Renaissance Age of Sail with adjustments for the 3D nature of the setting and advanced firearms/gunnery. I eventually put everything on the shelf while waiting for Pathfinder to come out. Now that I got the core books in my hand the creative juices are a flowin'.
SM
All kidding aside this is looking like it will be a great campaign. I will definitely be picking it up when it hits the street. I'm reading the air combat thread right now. I would like to know what kind of theme or 'tech level' we can expect? Will it be more mage/steampunk or fantabulous magickal mcguffin?
I "plan" for it to be more mage/steampunk combo with a lot of traditional fantasy stuff. Magic as tech is common, a la Eberron, but not everywhere: Large city = lots of magic, small outpost = not so much but some, Wilderness = not really.
And you have no idea how much I want to use this material for my Eberron / Pathfinder/ Planescape game. It would work great for maerial dealing with the Astral Plane!
Yes and I still miss Dungeon.