I want to use skill tricks from The Complete Scoundrel but since Pathfinder uses skill ranks instead of skill points what would the cost be?
In 3.5 it was 2 skill points to buy a skill trick.
Would it be two skill ranks?
Would it be just one skill rank?
Would it be effected by if the skill trick is involved with a class skill?
The mechanics of each skill trick I think I can handle though so it is just the cost that is bugging me.
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In my games (which use skill tricks*), you automatically get the trick when you have X ranks in the required skill, X being the normal purchase price. I find that using this system works just fine in Pathfinder without modifying the required ranks.
*The only games I run that use skill tricks are for the power gamers, so YMMV.
Edit: Previously this part of this post had erroneous information: I forgot how skill tricks work.
Corrected Advice: 2 skill ranks sounds right. My reasoning is this: In 3.5, at the time you could purchase skill tricks, your character is no longer getting (X+Int) x4 skill ranks, you are getting X+Int skill ranks, which is the same value you are getting in Pathfinder.
The requirements for skill tricks should be lowered by 3 ranks each (after conversion to their PFRPG counterparts), with a minimum of 1 ranks (if the conversion would lower the requirement to 0 or less, leave the requirement at 1). (Most likely, a requirement of Concentration can be filled by Spellcraft.)
In my games (which use skill tricks*), you automatically get the trick when you have X ranks in the required skill, X being the normal purchase price. I find that using this system works just fine in Pathfinder without modifying the required ranks.
*The only games I run that use skill tricks are for the power gamers, so YMMV.
Edit: Previously this part of this post had erroneous information: I forgot how skill tricks work.
Corrected Advice: 2 skill ranks sounds right. My reasoning is this: In 3.5, at the time you could purchase skill tricks, your character is no longer getting (X+Int) x4 skill ranks, you are getting X+Int skill ranks, which is the same value you are getting in Pathfinder.
The requirements for skill tricks should be lowered by 3 ranks each (after conversion to their PFRPG counterparts), with a minimum of 1 ranks (if the conversion would lower the requirement to 0 or less, leave the requirement at 1). (Most likely, a requirement of Concentration can be filled by Spellcraft.)
As for the requirements I totally agree and at first I was thinking the same thing as well for the cost but then I got to thinking.
In old 3.5 if you wanted a skill rank in a non-class skill it would cost 2 points.
If you wanted a skill point in a class skill it would only cost 1 skill point.
This old distinction is where I start to have some doubts because the reduced cost a skill rank in a class skill.
If we put the rules backwards then the cost would actually double because we spent 2 skill ranks and if it was involving non-class skills that would translate to 4 skill points.
So, what I am starting to think that is if the skill trick is involved with class skills then the cost would only be a skill rank but if it is involving non-class skills then it would be 2 skills ranks.
Does that sound logical or am I painting my self into a weird logic paradox?
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Does that sound logical or am I painting my self into a weird logic paradox?
I get it, but skill tricks weren't really meant for cross-classing. Sure, it can happen, but by the time you can get a 12-rank cross-class skill trick you're 21st level (or 13th for an 8-rank, or 7th for a 5-rank). PFRPG purposely made the cross-class penalty a thing of the past, so no longer does your 7th level fighter suffer with only 5 ranks of Hide. By that logic, it should be no harder for a stealthy fighter to learn a stealthy skill trick than a rogue.
But if you wanted to limit the skill tricks to the same character classes as in 3.5 (or limit when other classes can get them), keep the skill ranks the same but make a note that if the skill requirement is a class skill for the character, the requirements are 3 less (or make a note that a character's class skill bonus counts toward meeting prerequisites, and leave the actual prerequisite number alone).
Does that sound logical or am I painting my self into a weird logic paradox?I get it, but skill tricks weren't really meant for cross-classing. Sure, it can happen, but by the time you can get a 12-rank cross-class skill trick you're 21st level (or 13th for an 8-rank, or 7th for a 5-rank). PFRPG purposely made the cross-class penalty a thing of the past, so no longer does your 7th level fighter suffer with only 5 ranks of Hide. By that logic, it should be no harder for a stealthy fighter to learn a stealthy skill trick than a rogue.
But if you wanted to limit the skill tricks to the same character classes as in 3.5 (or limit when other classes can get them), keep the skill ranks the same but make a note that if the skill requirement is a class skill for the character, the requirements are 3 less (or make a note that a character's class skill bonus counts toward meeting prerequisites, and leave the actual prerequisite number alone).
hmmm, that sounds pretty sound but let me see if I understand what you are saying correctly.
Wall Jump er [Movement]
Prerequisite: Climb 5 ranks, Jump 5 ranks.
Benefit: If you have succeeded on a Climb check to
ascend or descend a wall during this or your previous turn,
you can leap horizontally from that wall as if you had a
running start.
So you saying that if they have Climb and jump as class skills then they would only need a rank of 2 to pull off the move however if not then it would cost the full printed amount.
Did I get that right?
If I did then I think this is also a better way of using material from 3.5 so instead of lowering the need ranks instead just say that the class skill bonus counts as ranks as well.
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Did I get that right?
Yep. Remember also that Jump converts to Acrobatics.
If I did then I think this is also a better way of using material from 3.5 so instead of lowering the need ranks instead just say that the class skill bonus counts as ranks as well.
In general I agree, but honestly removing the cross-class penalty is one of the greatest changes (I think) Pathfinder made. It was a real barrier to developing "off-type" characters (like the stealth fighter); if skill tricks are part of your game, re-instating a cross-class penalty (albeit in a new suit) just re-introduces that barrier.
Yep. Remember also that Jump converts to Acrobatics.
Yup I do remember actually that was one of the things that transferred very smoothly for us because we already had that as a house rule. It also combines tumble and balance checks.
What was curious was the fact that they didn't do that for run, jumping and swiming.
Our group converted that into a skill we call Athletics which made it a lot easier to deal with.