WotC drops Star Wars license

[ggroy]

Vic Wertz wrote:

Talonne Hauk wrote:

Lucas now owns a double digit percentage of Hasbro. I guess he doesn't have control, but I would assume he has strong influence.

Lucasfilm had "warrants" that gave them a *right to buy* Hasbro stock; Hasbro spent $200 million in 2007 to buy back those warrants.

Here's a filing that showed more than 21% of Hasbro shares going to Lucasfilm: 8.3%; George Lucas: 8.3%; and Lucas Licensing: 5.2%.

Here's the original SC 13D document of the Lucasfilm warrants:

http://www.secinfo.com/dsVSa.6He.htm

It states in Item 5 that George Lucas, Lucasfilm, and Lucas Licensing did not own any shares in Hasbro at the time. If Lucas or his entities had exercised any of the warrants, there should be a later filing which indicates it. (So far I haven't found such an additional document in the public SEC filings database search).

If Lucas had exercised the warrants, there would be another filing showing he had over 5% ownership of voting shares (ie. another 13D).

[Lord Fyre]

Mikaze wrote:

WarEagleMage wrote:

Interesting, now that the license is freed up... how about Star Wars Paizo style? That would be epic.

Twi'lek Seoni.

Unlikely. Seoni would likely remain a Human. (Remember Slave Girl Leia if you think that this is an "inferior" option.)

More likely would be Twi'lek Merisiel.

[Sebastian]

ggroy wrote:

Vic Wertz wrote:

Talonne Hauk wrote:

Lucas now owns a double digit percentage of Hasbro. I guess he doesn't have control, but I would assume he has strong influence.

Lucasfilm had "warrants" that gave them a *right to buy* Hasbro stock; Hasbro spent $200 million in 2007 to buy back those warrants.

Here's a filing that showed more than 21% of Hasbro shares going to Lucasfilm: 8.3%; George Lucas: 8.3%; and Lucas Licensing: 5.2%.

Here's the original SC 13D document of the Lucasfilm warrants:

http://www.secinfo.com/dsVSa.6He.htm

It states in Item 5 that George Lucas, Lucasfilm, and Lucas Licensing did not own any shares in Hasbro at the time. If Lucas or his entities had exercised any of the warrants, there should be a later filing which indicates it. (So far I haven't found such an additional document in the public SEC filings database search).

If Lucas had exercised the warrants, there would be another filing showing he had over 5% ownership of voting shares (ie. another 13D).

I almost posted the same thing, but I think that was Vic's point. Lucas doesn't own (and didn't own) a significant portion of Hasbro stock, they had a warrant that was never exercised and was repurchased prior to exercise.

[ggroy]

In more detail:

- the Lucasfilm warrant was for 6,300,000 Hasbro shares
- the Lucas Licensing warrant was for 9,450,000 Hasbro shares

which is a sum total of 15,750,000 Hasbro shares which Lucas had a right to buy (through his entities).

At the time of the SC 13D, the outstanding number of Hasbro shares was 196,224,767 (November 6, 1998).

If Lucas had exercised both warrants, he would have had approximately a 7.43% ownership of outstanding Hasbro stock. (Vic Wertz's 21% figure is quite off the mark).

[Vic Wertz]

ggroy wrote:

In more detail:

- the Lucasfilm warrant was for 6,300,000 Hasbro shares
- the Lucas Licensing warrant was for 9,450,000 Hasbro shares

which is a sum total of 15,750,000 Hasbro shares which Lucas and his entities had a right to buy.

At the time of the SC 13D, the outstanding number of Hasbro shares was 196,224,767 (November 6, 1998).

If Lucas had exercised both warrants, he would have had approximately a 7.43% ownership of outstanding Hasbro stock. (Vic Wertz's 21% figure is quite off the mark).

I just copied the percentages directly from the filing I linked to... Perhaps there was another acquisition in addition the one you linked to?

[ggroy]

Vic Wertz wrote:

ggroy wrote:

In more detail:

- the Lucasfilm warrant was for 6,300,000 Hasbro shares
- the Lucas Licensing warrant was for 9,450,000 Hasbro shares

which is a sum total of 15,750,000 Hasbro shares which Lucas and his entities had a right to buy.

At the time of the SC 13D, the outstanding number of Hasbro shares was 196,224,767 (November 6, 1998).

If Lucas had exercised both warrants, he would have had approximately a 7.43% ownership of outstanding Hasbro stock. (Vic Wertz's 21% figure is quite off the mark).

I just copied the percentages directly from the filing I linked to... Perhaps there was another acquisition than the one you linked to?

What you linked to was an SC 13D/A document, which was an amendment to the Lucas' original SC 13D. The numbers look off, if one doesn't have the original SC 13D for context.

[Sebastian]

ggroy wrote:

In more detail:

- the Lucasfilm warrant was for 6,300,000 Hasbro shares
- the Lucas Licensing warrant was for 9,450,000 Hasbro shares

which is a sum total of 15,750,000 Hasbro shares which Lucas had a right to buy (through his entities).

At the time of the SC 13D, the outstanding number of Hasbro shares was 196,224,767 (November 6, 1998).

If Lucas had exercised both warrants, he would have had approximately a 7.43% ownership of outstanding Hasbro stock. (Vic Wertz's 21% figure is quite off the mark).

Right - The SC 13D shows indirect ownership instead of direct ownership, so adding the percentages together results in double-counting of some shares.

I'm surprised the 8.21% is off though - that number should be correct.

[Matthew Morris]

Lord Fyre wrote:

Mikaze wrote:

WarEagleMage wrote:

Interesting, now that the license is freed up... how about Star Wars Paizo style? That would be epic.

Twi'lek Seoni.

Unlikely. Seoni would likely remain a Human. (Remember Slave Girl Leia if you think that this is an "inferior" option.)

More likely would be Twi'lek Merisiel.

I'll be in my bunk.

[Sebastian]

Vic Wertz wrote:

I just copied the percentages directly from the filing I linked to... Perhaps there was another acquisition in addition the one you linked to?

Right, but you don't add together the percentages - a Schedule 13D shows all the people who have control over the reported shares. It's the same bucket of shares (the 15.7m), but the control is shared by Lucas and Lucasfilm, and Lucas Licensing controls a smaller piece.

Edit: Hmmm...maybe the percentages are based off of public float and not outstanding shares. That would exclude the directors, officers and 5% owners from the denominator and would give you a bigger numerator. I don't do enough Section 13 filings to remember the way the number is calculated off the top of my head.

[ggroy]

Sebastian wrote:

ggroy wrote:

In more detail:

- the Lucasfilm warrant was for 6,300,000 Hasbro shares
- the Lucas Licensing warrant was for 9,450,000 Hasbro shares

which is a sum total of 15,750,000 Hasbro shares which Lucas had a right to buy (through his entities).

At the time of the SC 13D, the outstanding number of Hasbro shares was 196,224,767 (November 6, 1998).

If Lucas had exercised both warrants, he would have had approximately a 7.43% ownership of outstanding Hasbro stock. (Vic Wertz's 21% figure is quite off the mark).

Right - The SC 13D shows indirect ownership instead of direct ownership, so adding the percentages together results in double-counting of some shares.

I'm surprised the 8.21% is off though - that number should be correct.

When a warrant is exercised, it essentially "prints" up new stock. So if Lucas had exercised both warrants, his ownership would be:

15750000/(196224767 + 15750000)

which is about about 7.4%

[Sebastian]

ggroy wrote:

When a warrant is exercised, it essentially "prints" up new stock. So if Lucas had exercised both warrants, his ownership percentage would be:

15750000/(196224767 + 15750000)

which is about about 7.4%

Right - I know how a warrant works. But I also know it's a big mistake to file a 13D with the wrong numbers in it, which leads me to believe it is calculated differently or something else is going on that we are missing.

[ggroy]

Sebastian wrote:

ggroy wrote:

When a warrant is exercised, it essentially "prints" up new stock. So if Lucas had exercised both warrants, his ownership percentage would be:

15750000/(196224767 + 15750000)

which is about about 7.4%

Right - I know how a warrant works. But I also know it's a big mistake to file a 13D with the wrong numbers in it, which leads me to believe it is calculated differently or something else is going on that we are missing.

We would have to know the number of outstanding shares at the time of that SC 13D/A document (Feb 2003).

[Sebastian]

ggroy wrote:

Sebastian wrote:

ggroy wrote:

When a warrant is exercised, it essentially "prints" up new stock. So if Lucas had exercised both warrants, his ownership percentage would be:

15750000/(196224767 + 15750000)

which is about about 7.4%

Right - I know how a warrant works. But I also know it's a big mistake to file a 13D with the wrong numbers in it, which leads me to believe it is calculated differently or something else is going on that we are missing.

We would have to know the number of outstanding shares at the time of that SC 13D/A document (Feb 2003).

I think it's probably the public float issue I described above.

Edit: Yeah, looking at the 10-Q filed in 2002 (the latest public filing which would've been available prior to this Schedule 13D was filed), it shows 173,166,593 shares outstanding, which is the public float of the Company (not all issued and outstanding shares).

So:

15,750,000/(173,166,593 + 15,750,000) = 8.33%

[ggroy]

Sebastian wrote:

I think it's probably the public float issue I described above.

I don't remember offhand. I haven't done any financial analysis since the dotcom collapse.

[ggroy]

Vic Wertz wrote:

Lucasfilm had "warrants" that gave them a *right to buy* Hasbro stock; Hasbro spent $200 million in 2007 to buy back those warrants.

Wonder why exactly Hasbro made the decision to buy back the Lucas warrants.

Without knowing any inside information, one could guess that perhaps the Star Wars toys may not have been selling as well in 2006-2007. They probably thought it would be easier to settle with Lucas, than to have to deal with whatever contract they had originally signed with him.

[Sebastian]

ggroy wrote:

Vic Wertz wrote:

Lucasfilm had "warrants" that gave them a *right to buy* Hasbro stock; Hasbro spent $200 million in 2007 to buy back those warrants.

Wonder why exactly Hasbro made the decision to buy back the Lucas warrants.

Without knowing any inside information, one could guess that perhaps the Star Wars toys may not have been selling as well in 2006-2007. They probably thought it would be easier to settle with Lucas, than to have to deal with whatever contract they had originally signed with him.

They were on something of a stock buying binge at the time - there are a number of filings from that period about stock buybacks. They probably were able to get a bigger bang for their buck with the repurchase of the warrants.

[ggroy]

Sebastian wrote:

They were on something of a stock buying binge at the time - there are a number of filings from that period about stock buybacks. They probably were able to get a bigger bang for their buck with the repurchase of the warrants.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were several underlying motivations, from the both the financial and consumer sides.

On the consumer side back when the episodes 2 and 3 movies were still "fresh" (ie. 2002 -> 2005), I remember seeing Star Wars figures being sold even in places like food supermarkets. Today these same supermarkets haven't been selling any Star Wars figures for the last several years. They were largely gone a year or so after episode 3 was released. Perhaps there was a "glut" of Star Wars toys figures on the market, saturating it?

[Mikaze]

Lord Fyre wrote:

Mikaze wrote:

WarEagleMage wrote:

Interesting, now that the license is freed up... how about Star Wars Paizo style? That would be epic.

Twi'lek Seoni.

Unlikely. Seoni would likely remain a Human. (Remember Slave Girl Leia if you think that this is an "inferior" option.)

More likely would be Twi'lek Merisiel.

Acceptable only if Harsk gets to be a Wookie.

[Urizen]

ggroy wrote:

On the consumer side back when the episodes 2 and 3 movies were still "fresh" (ie. 2002 -> 2005), I remember seeing Star Wars figures being sold even in places like food supermarkets. Today these same supermarkets haven't been selling any Star Wars figures for the last several years. They were largely gone a year or so after episode 3 was released. Perhaps there was a "glut" of Star Wars toys figures on the market, saturating it?

As an observation, we still have Star Wars figures being sold out of chain food markets here in Central Ohio...

[SirUrza]

the Stick wrote:

cyrusduane wrote:

Well...., in my heart there was only one Star wars RPG, and it was played entirely with D6s.

Word to the Wookiee

What they said.

[Danny F]

flash_cxxi wrote:

Studpuffin wrote:

There is a Wars RPG, where!?

So you're a WARS fan too?

I loved that game and colected all of the Short Stories/Music/RPG/anything else affiliated with it.
I was quite sad when they cancelled it.

Then you might be interested in this.

I'm a fan, too.

[Studpuffin]

Danny F wrote:

flash_cxxi wrote:

Studpuffin wrote:

There is a Wars RPG, where!?

So you're a WARS fan too?

I loved that game and colected all of the Short Stories/Music/RPG/anything else affiliated with it.
I was quite sad when they cancelled it.

Then you might be interested in this.

I'm a fan, too.

ROFL, this is the... Holy grail <snicker> of Wars!!!

[Jandrem]

Urizen wrote:

ggroy wrote:

On the consumer side back when the episodes 2 and 3 movies were still "fresh" (ie. 2002 -> 2005), I remember seeing Star Wars figures being sold even in places like food supermarkets. Today these same supermarkets haven't been selling any Star Wars figures for the last several years. They were largely gone a year or so after episode 3 was released. Perhaps there was a "glut" of Star Wars toys figures on the market, saturating it?

As an observation, we still have Star Wars figures being sold out of chain food markets here in Central Ohio...

The Kroger supermarket here in Pataskala(east of Columbus) has 2 entire toy aisles. And an abundance of Star Wars figs. Now only if they sold minis...

[Urizen]

Jandrem wrote:

The Kroger supermarket here in Pataskala(east of Columbus) has 2 entire toy aisles. And an abundance of Star Wars figs. Now only if they sold minis...

That's EXACTLY the store I'm referencing to. I live in Etna Township. Small world. Do I know you?

[Matthew Morris]

Urizen wrote:

ggroy wrote:

On the consumer side back when the episodes 2 and 3 movies were still "fresh" (ie. 2002 -> 2005), I remember seeing Star Wars figures being sold even in places like food supermarkets. Today these same supermarkets haven't been selling any Star Wars figures for the last several years. They were largely gone a year or so after episode 3 was released. Perhaps there was a "glut" of Star Wars toys figures on the market, saturating it?

As an observation, we still have Star Wars figures being sold out of chain food markets here in Central Ohio...

Along with the occasional GI Joe.

I picked up the legacy 2 pack since I think the Imperial Knights are dripping with red armoured awesome.

Pity the miniature knights don't have helmets on, if they did they'd be perfect for the grey maidens in CotCR.

Completely off topic. Does someone make 3 3/4" DC figures? With this and this I could make that Avengers/JLA crossover cover.

[Jandrem]

Urizen wrote:

Jandrem wrote:

The Kroger supermarket here in Pataskala(east of Columbus) has 2 entire toy aisles. And an abundance of Star Wars figs. Now only if they sold minis...

That's EXACTLY the store I'm referencing to. I live in Etna Township. Small world. Do I know you?

lol possibly. Do you know a Josh M.?

[Urizen]

Matthew Morris wrote:

Along with the occasional GI Joe.

I picked up the legacy 2 pack since I think the Imperial Knights are dripping with red armoured awesome.

Pity the miniature knights don't have helmets on, if they did they'd be perfect for the grey maidens in CotCR.

And Legos.

I've really been refraining from buying any more action figures. It has been several years. I have ALOT in storage packed away in my basement. It was just getting too hard to keep up with everything that's coming out left and right that I plain got discouraged.

[Urizen]

Jandrem wrote:

lol possibly. Do you know a Josh M.?

No sir, I don't. You have FB?

[Jandrem]

facebook.com/jandrem should be it

[Matthew Morris]

Jandrem wrote:

facebook.com/jandrem should be it

Since I'm in Columbus (and Urizen never writes :P) mind if I add you?

[Jandrem]

Sure thing!

[Urizen]

Jandrem wrote:

facebook.com/jandrem should be it

Done. :D

[Urizen]

Matthew Morris wrote:

Jandrem wrote:

facebook.com/jandrem should be it

Since I'm in Columbus (and Urizen never writes :P) mind if I add you?

*sheepish look* I owe you a theological response, don't I? It's so much more tough & time consuming to do than the quick snarks and nonsense comments I do here.

[Shinmizu]

Urizen wrote:

It's so much more tough & time consuming to do than the quick snarks and nonsense comments I do here.

Hey, I spend hours on my nonsense comments! I think you might need a new line of messageboard work... like posting tax codes or something.

[MerrikCale]

WarEagleMage wrote:

Interesting, now that the license is freed up... how about Star Wars Paizo style? That would be epic.

YES

[Studpuffin]

MerrikCale wrote:

WarEagleMage wrote:

Interesting, now that the license is freed up... how about Star Wars Paizo style? That would be epic.

YES

Hey Merrik, didn't you post over on the WotC Star Wars board too? I swear I remember seeing you over there quite a bit.

[Urizen]

Shinmizu wrote:

Hey, I spend hours on my nonsense comments! I think you might need a new line of messageboard work... like posting tax codes or something.

Hey, if it pays good, I'll be game!

[MerrikCale]

Studpuffin wrote:

Hey Merrik, didn't you post over on the WotC Star Wars board too? I swear I remember seeing you over there quite a bit.

You have a good memory although it has been a littel while. I was all over the Forgotten realms boards as well. A regular you might say, until, well you know the 4E realms came out

[GQBLord]

Studpuffin wrote:

Danny F wrote:

flash_cxxi wrote:

Studpuffin wrote:

There is a Wars RPG, where!?

So you're a WARS fan too?

I loved that game and colected all of the Short Stories/Music/RPG/anything else affiliated with it.
I was quite sad when they cancelled it.

Then you might be interested in this.

I'm a fan, too.

ROFL, this is the... Holy grail <snicker> of Wars!!!

It took me a long time to come up with that company name... :-P

Oh well. It will still be fun bringing these novellas and comics to the WARS fan base (and sci-fi/fantasy fans in general).

BTW, there is a Haiti fund raiser drive online tomorrow night. Those who tune in between 8:00pm and 8:30pm CT will have a chance to win a pre-order. It's a great way to pick up one of the WARS novellas or the first three issues of the comic series. Details here...

[The Weave05]

Linky

Watch from 30 seconds.

I thought it was amusing at the time :]

[Studpuffin]

MerrikCale wrote:

Studpuffin wrote:

Hey Merrik, didn't you post over on the WotC Star Wars board too? I swear I remember seeing you over there quite a bit.

You have a good memory although it has been a littel while. I was all over the Forgotten realms boards as well. A regular you might say, until, well you know the 4E realms came out

Right, I stuck it out until the beginning of 2008 but the playtest was a-callin.

[ziltmilt]

Pax Veritas wrote:

Hey - - pretty plain to me that lightning doesn't strike twice.

Look at the names Slavicsek and Perkins. See whose names are on both Starwars and 4e. Try to tell the games apart if you can?

lol

...just sayin'

Interestingly, Slavicsek also worked on d6 Star Wars for West End prior to going to WOTC. In fact, he designed one of my favorite RPG adventures ever, a Star Wars module called 'Black Ice'. When he wrote that story, he must have been channeling Timothy Zahn cause it's chock full of really cool plot twists.

[ziltmilt]

Pax Veritas wrote:

Hey - - pretty plain to me that lightning doesn't strike twice.

Look at the names Slavicsek and Perkins. See whose names are on both Starwars and 4e. Try to tell the games apart if you can?

lol

...just sayin'

Interestingly, Slavicsek also worked on d6 Star Wars for West End prior to going to WOTC. In fact, he designed one of my favorite RPG adventures ever, a Star Wars module called 'Black Ice'. When he wrote that story, he must have been channeling Timothy Zahn cause it's chock full of really cool plot twists.

[danielamos]

I maintain that Paizo should pick up the Star Wars license.

[DM Wellard]

danielamos wrote:

I maintain that Paizo should pick up the Star Wars license.

Why?..If WotC can't make it pay I doubt that Vic and Lisa would want this particular poison pill.

[TheChozyn]

I liked Saga Edition (or as I called it when it first rolled out 4EBeta). I never played WEG version, but it's going on my list to get/try.

I will find all the saga books and throw it into my gaming rotation again. Along with Pathfinder(with 3.x thrown in with it), 4e, Silver Age Sentinels, DeadLands(if I can ever find all the books).

I pour a little jawa juice for my fallen homies...

[ziltmilt]

danielamos wrote:

I maintain that Paizo should pick up the Star Wars license.

It would be so cool to see what Paizo can do to the IP, especially in regards to the game art: character portraits, ship maps, etc. Their changes to any mechanics would potentially interesting as well, but as a guess, they'd probably make whatever product backward compatible w/ the WOTC Saga, similar to Pathfinder & D&D.

But, there's a couple of problems, IMO

1) Lucasfilm insists on elevating the prequels with the original trilogy.

2) Paizo is make me go broke, so no new product lines I'd have to buy, please. My checking account can't repel brilliance of Paizo's magnitude.

I bet Paizo could make a go of it, even though WOTC decided to take a pass. They could even outfit their website with a Star Wars multimedia section, so that GMs can put together little cutscene dogfight scenes, play sound fx and music clips .. generally just stuff to heighten the RPG experience with immersive effects.

[James Martin]

As much as I'd love to see Paizo's take on Star Wars, it would probably not be financially feasible. But seeing starship battles in the skies over Cheliax? Awesome.

[Lord Fyre]

TheChozyn wrote:

I pour a little jawa juice for my fallen homies...

Did you make that be grinding up real Jawas?

[LazarX]

DM Wellard wrote:

danielamos wrote:

I maintain that Paizo should pick up the Star Wars license.

Why?..If WotC can't make it pay I doubt that Vic and Lisa would want this particular poison pill.

West End Games had problems making it pay off as well. There is a lot of Lucas baggage that's included with licensing Star Wars and I doubt that one.... that even Paizo could turn a profit with it, and two... that they really would want to have to deal with that baggage.

I suspect the problem is just inherent with the nature of this particular franchise.