Favored Enemy (human) bonus vs. half-elves and half-orcs?

[Mosaic]

As a ranger with favored enemy (human), do I also get my bonus vs. half-humans? The PRD says half-elves and half-orcs are treated as both humans and their other halves. Poetically, I probably ought to get half my bonus, but the text suggests I get the whole thing.

What about formerly human vampires and other undead? Tieflings with one human parent?

Would this also be true of favored enemy (dragon) and half-dragons?

[LazarX]

Half-elves and half-orcs that I'd argue because they have a functioning human component.

But given that most undead are former humans, I'd say that the answer is clearly no. because their major type is now Undead, not Humanoid.

On the other hand, I'd say there's a fair argument for saying half-breeds don't count period. they generally tend to be fairly uncommon as a rule.

On worlds like Eberron where Half-Elves are a distinct stable race, a Ranger could (and would have to to get any bonus) pick Half-Elf specifically as a favored enemy.

[meabolex]

Quote:

As a ranger with favored enemy (human), do I also get my bonus vs. half-humans?

Yes as long as they're player races in the core books.

PRD wrote:

Elf Blood: Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.

PRD wrote:

Orc Blood: Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.

For half-dragons, their type is *always* dragon, so yes, you get your favored enemy (dragon) bonus on them. For half-celestials and half-fiends, their type is native outsider. So you'd only get bonuses on them if you had favored enemy (outsider (native)).

Quote:

What about formerly human vampires and other undead? Tieflings with one human parent?

Vampires are always undead. The creature type (undead) is the key. Tieflings are always native outsiders, so you get no bonuses on them from favored enemy (human).

[B.O.B.Johnson]

Sorry to necro this thread, but I just moved to a new area, and this came up recently in a scenario I was playing, and the local VC was insistent that favored enemy humanoid (human) does not work on half-Elf or half-Orc. Instead you had to take favored enemy humanoid (half-XXX) was her argument. I wanted to post here so that others could see some of the main points I tried to futility make to get her to see reason.

I tried explaining to her that it lists when you take favored enemy humanoid you have to pick a sub-type and half-XXX is not a sub-type. Half-XXX have two sub-types (as creatures can and will have more than 1 sub-type), and in this case it had sub-type human and sub-type XXX.

I tried to point out that why would they have this line in the CRB at then end of the favored enemy entry if half-XXX didn't count as both human and XXX:

CRB wrote:

If a specific creature

falls into more than one category of favored enemy, the
ranger’s bonuses do not stack; he simply uses whichever
bonus is higher.

Her counter-argument: that was put in there because of templates like undead templates. Which is also a bad argument, because Undead isn't a sub-type. So favored enemy humanoid (human) does not work against an enemy whose type is Undead (human) - which isn't even a thing because if you look at the Human Skeleton or Human Zombie entry in the Bestiary, they have type 'Undead', not 'Undead (human)' - even though their entry on their page is 'Human XXXXX'.

I tried to point her to the half-Elf racial trait in the CRB:

CRB wrote:

Elf Blood: Half-elves count as both elves and humans for ANY effect related to race.

(emphasis mine)

Her counter-argument: specific trumps general and this only applies to spells that target only humans or only elves. Only problem with this is the half-elf trait is specific.

I finally tried to show her this half-elf feat called Neither Elf nor Human:

ARG wrote:

Neither Elf nor Human

You have removed yourself from your heritage so thoroughly that even magic does not recognize you.

Prerequisites: Exile's Path, Seen and Unseen, character level 11th, half-elf.

Benefit: You are not considered ELVEN OR HUMAN for the purpose of harmful spells or effects based on your type, like a bane weapon or a RANGER'S FAVORED ENEMY class feature.

(again emphasis mine)

Why would they have this half-elf only feat that explicitly calls out the ranger's favored enemy and both the elven race and human if favored enemy humanoid (human) and favored enemy humanoid (elf) don't apply to half-elves?

Her last counter argument (at which point I was done trying to discuss it politely and I just shut up and waited for the evening to end and these discussions happened during breaks - I was polite and made sure to wait for the break so as to not interrupt game play) was this: she took one look at the PRD entry I was showing her on my phone and scoffed that 'the entry is from the inner sea region and has nothing to do with the pathfinder society'.

What?! Anyway, I should have known early on it was pointless to try and have a reasonable conversation with her because near the beginning one of the other players at the table said that basically the only way I'd convince her otherwise was to write it on a index card and the next time John Compton visited the area, they would ask all the rules dispute questions they had on all these index cards to him.

[Rysky]

Yeaaaaaaaaah, your VC is wrong. Very wrong. Hilariously wrong.

I'd contact your VL if you have one.

[Gauss]

The FAQ would disagree with your VC's statement that "elf blood" only applies to spells.

The rules are pretty clear, If you are a Half-Elf you are Human and Elf for any and all rules that call out humans or elves as a requirement.

The same goes for Half-Orc. (Humans or Orcs.)

The reason for the favored enemy clause is because some creatures have multiple subtypes.

[B.O.B.Johnson]

Thanks for the link to the FAQ. I tried being polite but I'm not very eloquent when talking - much better at writing (and even then not so much). I guess what annoyed me was not her misunderstanding of the rules, but was her unwillingness to even read the final feat I tried to show her (Neither Elf nor Human) and her disdain to much - such her 'well this is how I run it, so this is how it's going to be run here.'

I do realize this was my first game session in this area, so maybe it was just cause I was some outsider. I don't know. I am very inclined not to return to her area. I do have to travel an hour to game there anyway (it's the closest I've found). I was a VA at my old state. So I am trying to find a local game store and get it going nearer where I live now. If that works out I won't have to return to her area to get my 'fix'.

[dragonhunterq]

Gauss wrote:

The FAQ would disagree with your VC's statement that "elf blood" only applies to spells.

The rules are pretty clear, If you are a Half-Elf you are Human and Elf for any and all rules that call out humans or elves as a requirement.

The same goes for Half-Orc. (Humans or Orcs.)

The reason for the favored enemy clause is because some creatures have multiple subtypes.

+1 and this thread is a perfect example. For instance if you have favoured enemy +4 vs humanoid (elf) and +2 vs humanoid(human) you don't get +6 vs half-elf, you only get the +4, even though both apply.