Copied from the thread on 4e sales, I rambled my way through a couple points into a monster post; my bad ^_^ Also fixed a couple of my numbers; math late at night and I don't get along...
Hair bit of background: I own Backstage Hobbies & Games, a B&M gaming store in Ludington, MI, a seasonal tourist town. I've run the business for nearly three years and have steadily grown, but I do currently hold a part time job as well as working with an area school's drama department to fill in my own paycheck.
This thread is a transplant of a post in the other thread, originally as replies to comments from other posts. It began as a response to a poster wishing for a "revolution" of good gaming product and support, to which I replied it would have to come from players and store owners, and from there discussion drifted (or veered horribly) in the direction of shop-specifics, online ordering & discounts, etc. As a result, the post can seem a bit disjointed, I apologize for that.
Re:Play Area
Play area isn't necessarily THE thing, but it is A thing. Knowledgeable staff, demo space, the ability to showcase game play, those taken together is the most important thing. Brian, you're right about the noise & obnoxiousness; I do actually advise some folks to avoid my place Friday nights for that very reason; I pull 25-30 people for the Friday Night Magic events. During the day, however, I usually have a few folks hanging out, talking turkey about their games and favorites, playing a hand or two of games. This alone is invaluable, because walk-in traffic can then see what these games are, how they are played, ask questions of real players in the act of playing. This is a huge thing for the industry as a whole, because it introduces new blood into the market (I also sell used video games, so I pull from some different interests than straight PnP players).
Re: Math
Here's the math behind my situation; I will admit up front, I am a very unique example, I'm a small shop in a small town, but it is illustrative.
At the very least, bare-bones minimum, I NEED $2500 in gross sales to open my door day in, day out. That pays basic fees for rent, insurance, utilities, taxes, etc.
This is for about 1500 square feet in a no-name town on a side-street that no one cares about. Start talking main avenue and rent doubles. Start talking developed area (such as a strip mall or developed property) and it triples. And that's juts in Podunk Michigan, where property values are through the floor. Start looking at larger cities or heavier traffic stretches and it will vary accordingly.
The layout consists of a 20x20 lobby, wherein most of my game tables and displays are, a 12x13 office where I have product with my sales counter set into the wall open into the lobby, a 12x13 lounge, a 10x10 office for storage, and a 20x10 back office I sublease to a friend to do PC repair out of just to make ends meet. That $2500 pays for the building and related features, and the product to generate those sales, period.
If I had an employee, even say part time, 20 hours a week ($143~ Gross Wages), that's another $400-$500 a week in expenses ($143~ gross wages, $22 in employer's taxes (or more, I know very little about this aspect), $250~ in product costs), $1600-$2000 a month on rough math for the extra taxes, insurance, wages, and cost of goods to make that happen. Advertising, for a basic radio add in my community I was paying around $400 a month, plus fliers and little things we can round that to a $500 total, $700~ in product costs to make that $500.
So, to run the joint with advertising, we're talking $3700 in sales bare minimum. Throw in an employee and we're at around $5500. Start offering steep discounts, ala the 40+%, and that can almost double. All of that is without paying Nate Petersen a dime.
Rough math on these figures says that to make $20,000~ myself (same as working at WalMart as a wage slave) and do NOTHING but the bare-bones for the shop, I'd need around $90k in sales. And a lot of this is rough math and rounding, mind.
Re: Items
Of a $30 item on my shelf, about $20 of that is in raw product costs, some change in there for shipping, and if I've been sitting on it (like I've been sitting on copies of the 4e core books since last year) another portion of that is storage, holding & sitting on it. I might clear $5 raw profit on the item when all is said and done. Good example would be MtG fat packs; MSRP $35, I pay $18 to $22 per unit, $18 around pre-release, $22 after release. A case of those probably costs around $10 to ship, there's six to a case. Round it to $24 cost per unit, sit on them for a month which ties up ~$142 of my cash for that time. Finally sells at $35, I make $8 to $10 a unit, $48-60 a case, for a month's worth of service and storage.
I take a discount on the item, I annihilate profit margins. $450~ worth of books off Amazon for $300~? Were they on my shelf, that $150 saved equates to roughly 37% of the sale, a little less than my profit margin, would have actually gone toward those bills of mine, while that $300~ would have paid for the raw product itself.
BASIC rate, depending on a given store's size and order rate, is 55-60% of cover. Start talking about those 35-40% discounts off cover, and there goes that margin. When Borders can buy in bulk and nail a 45-50% of cover rate (or less!) and turn around and offer 40% off SRP, they have a 10% margin, but across hundreds or thousands of titles and customers.
Really, its not that stores don't appreciate the fact ordering online/elsewhere saves you money, because we do, trust me. Its that for a mom & pop operation like myself that discount people are looking for is nearly my entire profit margin. I can squeak a little more out sometimes, but that's cutting things short. And doing that means I need to find the money elsewhere, which means I need higher raw sales; cutting $1 here or there can mean needing to make up $3 in gross sales elsewhere.
Regarding comments about prior discounts, I know enough from other industry lists, prior owners in the area, and discussions with various folks involved in distribution, that things have changed greatly over the years. Margins WERE better, and it was easier to offer those discounts for many folks. Quite often, our prices behind the scenes go up without the manufacturer adjusting SRP to help. Without that, players expect SRP or less while we face rising costs to acquire said items in the first place, pinching us in two directions effectively.
As to the disconnect, here's the thing. We cannot, flat out, compete with raw cost, product assortment, anything like that. Can't happen. Any store that tries will fold in record time. Play space, support, and encouraging play, that keeps people in the store, allows us to suggest other titles, other cards or minis, accessories, etc. That is where we who do survive derive our money.
Having a game store entails certain costs, which is what that product mark-up pays for. We don't want to rip anyone off, we just want to pay our bills, have some fun, and continue to make a living ourselves. If you don't want to pay the mark-up, we can't pay those bills. It really is a simple thing at the end, like I said, we get what we pay for~
First of all, thanks for sharing those numbers with us. Anyone who says that what you do isn't a labor of love is an absolute fool. And of course, best of luck.
And let me add that I dearly wish you weren't many states away.
You mentioned in the previous thread about the things that you've done to make the store more appealing, and I whole heartily agree. The days of dingy, narrow shops with poor lighting and dirty floors are over. Like you said, when the internet rules on price, you have to compete on service.
I live well over an hour from an FLGS, but there are two about the same distance from me, so whenever I'm out and about I always stop by one or the other (depending on which city I'm visiting) to pick up a few things. Both stores are clean and spacious, the shelves are well stocked, and when the owners are there, both are a pleasure to visit, chat, and usually buy something I hadn't intended to, just as a way to support the stores and the hobby. Which also ties into what you said about needing to be knowledgeable and approachable.
But when the owner isn't there? Wow. What a difference. The physical plants are the same, but the hired help is...different. Have you ever gone to a music store (back when there were music stores) and asked the tatooed and pierced goth clerk behind the counter where something could be found, only to have her/him give you that sullen, bored, and slightly condescending look, then point vaguely to a part of the store? Well, at both stores, I get treated to the geekdom version of that.
"So how's Battletech selling these days."
Shrug. "I don't play that."
"Oh. Ummm, so anything new coming out?"
Shrug. "I'd have to check the catalogues."
"Uh, okay. How's 4e doing?"
Shrug + sneer. "You couldn't make me play that."
"Uh, okay, tell the owner I said 'hello'."
Shrug. "Sure."
What's really odd is that in my travels, I almost always try to stop by the FLGS when one is around, and I've have had different, tho strangely similar, versions of that happen from Seattle to Atlanta. When the owner is there, great experience. When the owner isn't? Wow. Terrible. I've started asking when I walk in if the person behind the counter is the owner. If they aren't, I just leave. Not worth the hassle.
So how does that relate to your store? Two things. First, DON'T EVER LEAVE, EVEN FOR A MINUTE!!! And second, some of us really appreciate the effort that small business owners put into customer service, and don't mind paying a little more for it. I hope I have a good reason to visit your part of the world someday. If I do, I'll look you up.
I definitely agree on the preference to brick and mortar stores to virtual shopfronts. While I DO enjoy the virtual benefits of buying directly from paizo I only do so because I have not found a B&M store that is close enough. Nearest store that even caters to the industry at all is nearly 30 miles away and they don't carry much of a variety of RPG supplies, focusing mostly on miniatures, CCGs and comic books.
I buy my material from paizo (despite the slightly higher cost) because I would rather support them directly than Amazon or another distributor. The free PDFs I get as a bonus are nice, but for the most part while I peruse the PDF while waiting for my dead tree copy other than archival purposes it is unused afterward.
The almighty dollar is powerful, as are the virtues of "free" benefits such as shipping, discounts and giveaways, but nothing is truly free. When I first got into the hobby there were a half dozen gaming stores I could patronize, then it was down to 3, then one. Now the nearest one is difficult to get to and he really only supplies me with dice and miniatures.
A brick and mortar store may cost more money than a virtual storefront, but the "freebies" in my opinion are the most expensive of all
Service is definitely a winner. Knowledgeable, courteous staff will keep me coming back. I don't mind paying an extra dollar or two for a pleasant experience and it makes picking out RPG material much more fun. Since I stopped having a regular FLGS to patronize the material I've purchased has decreased quite a bit. Nothing can compare to going in for one item in particular and glimpsing something else that might be interesting. Having someone say "yes, thats an excellent product, and if you like that you might also like this!"
On the one hand my budget likes not having a FLGS around. Never was a time that I went in to buy a $25 dollar book, and came out with less than 35-50 worth of material or more, often with a return trip next pay period.
It wouldn't surprise me to find (if there was a way to do such a study) that the decline of the FLGS was largely responsible for the decline of the gaming industry. Yes, borders might be a physical location that carries RPG books, but its hardly a place to find out about 4e, 3.5, pathfinder or conan. Chances are the people there don't even know what those terms are other than a word in a catalog.
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A lot of great stuff about running a game store.
Thanks for moving this over to another thread Nate. A bit about my background so you know where I’m coming from since you gave yours. I’ve gamed since ’81 and worked in a game store for about two and a half years (04-07). I’ve worked as volunteer rep for several game companies and have been very active in organized play, attending and assisting at local conventions as well as GenCon. So I’ve seen the business from just about every angle.
I agree that running a LGS is not easy. I won’t argue with you on the numbers as you know what it takes to run your store. And there’s a lot of competition vying against you before you even get the door open. As you mentioned the internet market is probably the biggest bane to the LGS followed by big chain bookstores and Wal-Mart. Still I think a LGS can survive but needs to adapt which I think has been the hardest part for most of them out there. It’s hard to accept what has to be done to in order to be competitive with the market. Here are some conclusions I’ve come to or learned in recent years so take them as you will as I’m offering them as advice to you but observations to the others.
One of the biggest problems with LGS is that they are not a destination store as you or someone mentioned in the other thread. They might seem like that for die hard gamers, but for the most part LGS are offering impulse products. The average gamer can live without any one specific game or product. That means the store needs to be located as close to a destination area as possible. If it sells food in any format the better and if you can get more than one then that’s even more. I understand it might not financially be possible or may mean lower initial returns, but it’s true. The closer you can get to where people travel the most the more your store will get noticed. Advertisement helps, but not everyone reads the paper, listens to the local radio, or watches the local TV. (An example of an idea spot I found in my area the location had a Walgreens, a video store, three restaurants, a gas station, a martial arts studio, and a couple of other misc destinations all within a one block area of shopping centers that faced each other. I found it while mulling the idea of opening my own store. Rent was going to be around $2500-3500 in the Des Moines area.)
One of the things I learned from another game store owner friend concerns shelf space. There’s a bad trend among LGS concerning shelf space and that’s “it will eventually sell.” Some products will I agree, but for the most part every product in the gaming industry tends to have about a three month shelf life. About the exact same amount of time for its popularity to run its course. You mention having several copies of the 4e core books sitting on your shelf. Why? It’s simple; you don’t want to lose money on it. As my friend taught me, that’s money tied up that could be used for other products. His strategy is to put the date on each product when it hits his shelf. After two months he starts marking it down slowly until eventually he sells it for cost. An alternative we mentioned is selling it on the internet. The point is that a lot of LGS are sitting with overstock that they could be moving if only to get the initial cost back. If you have to sell it as a loss then I’d suggest donating it for the tax write off, but the key is to get it off your shelf and turn that money into something that will move.
Competing with the internet isn’t impossible but at the same time as you mentioned it can be dangerous. Here’s something I realized about internet sales that I think if applied would work. Outside of Amazon with their free shipping everyone else has one which tends to be around $3.99 or so depending on where it’s bought. Most gamers would love to buy from their LGS if they have one, but it’s hard passing up $10-20 savings that could buy more game products. Here’s the approach I thought of. Discount preorders only. Why? Because like I said most would prefer to buy local and get it immediately the day it releases. If I’m still saving $5-15 dollars I’ll gladly do it. It’s the initial sale you’re competing for since everything else a person buys is going to be impulse. Preorders also help eliminate overstock because you only order one or two beyond it. If you think a product might do better then buy a couple more, but the key is to really limit that overstock. The great thing about impulse stores is that people hate to leave without buying something.
Space is key and not just in shelf space. As we discussed and you pointed out game space is almost a must these days. People need to see the product in action and the more excitement that can surround it the better. I don’t know how many times I sold products because someone saw the game in action. I’m glad we agree on that.
Knowledge sells games and you’re a drug dealer whether you know it or not. Or at least a pimp. Knowing details about a game is a must. If you don’t know about it or have an employee or a regular who does then don’t even try selling it. I can’t stress this enough. Sure you might get a sale or two, but more often than not if you can’t answer a customer’s question you’ll lose a sale. And it might be as simple as what color do you recommend I paint my centurion death knight? Also the more excited you can get about the more it rubs off. Another thing that needs to be known is what’s coming down the pipe. It’s important to keep the regulars up on their hobby and be able to tell other customers what they could find if they come back in a week or two. The more you get people jonzing for their gaming fix the more they’ll come back, if only to look and probably buy on impulse if they don’t find what they want.
Cleanliness moves products. I hated this part of working at the store, but it’s true. No one wants to buy a product covered in dust. Everything needs to be clean and looking as new as the day it hit the shelf. Plain and simple and the shorter it stays on the shelf the less cleaning that will need to be done. ;-)
Well that’s enough for me right now. I hope that helps someone.
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Moved from the other topic
I agree with you, sadly most owners don't seem to. There is a local chain where I live. Only one store the biggest has room and lets people play there. The few other stores left in the area don't have room or worse they charge players to use the tables and not cheaply. (least they use to the last time I checked)
Most are small, often dirty and the hired help tend to come in two types. The ones that are no help at all or the ones that are only interested in telling you what is the best games are and which ones suck. (the ones they like and the ones they don't like respectively)
I use to buy mostly from stores but for the most part they sadly offer me nothing but a place to buy the books at or dice. The really sad thing that honestly got me to move online was ordering back stock of stuff. Often it would take weeks if not more than a month to get something I would ordered. Or I could order it online at home and have it the same week, without having to either show the clerk exactly what I wanted repeatedly or have them trying to change my mind to buy the cool good game instead.(the cool good game depends on who is working at the store at the time)
So I completely agree with you and think stores need to turn into more than just stores. Become places to come hang out, play games and be inviting. Sadly you seem one of the few owners that get that. The owner of the chain gets it, his main store is that way. Why he doesn't make the rest of the chain that way is beyond me.
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I tend to always shop at FLGS. Its not just that I want to support my local game store, but rather that I want to support my local economy. If those shops stay open then their owners and employees get paid, and can hopefully spend some of that money in other local establishments and the process can repeat. I know it does not work that way all the time in practice, as there will always be bargain hunters seeking these items on the internet for the lowest common denominator. Thats fair. I buy LPs on the internet even though there are two local stores that sell them because they won't order me the LPs I want to buy. I tried to give them my money and they refused. I am on draw for all the products I like at my FLGS (meaning they put a 1 copy of every thing on my list in a box with my name on it and I come in couple times a month and buy the contents of the box). If they miss something I mention it once, and if its not in the box the next time I come in I buy it on the interwebs. I also give them a crack at back issues and legacy material I am looking for, but they usually don't get it. When they do come across it I get it from them, if they don't I use the web.
I like having local businesses to shop at. This is why I frequent them and spend some of my money at them. Its nice to be able to go get something the day it is released, play games in public, or just browse. This is a luxury, and luxuries cost money. I have polled some of the gamers in my area, some of them feel the same, some don't.
But I know I am not the norm. I am pretty conscious of where my money goes. I don't shop at Wal-mart of Sam's because almost all of their products are imported and they use bulk buying to put out of business the other folks in my community. I look at labels in stores to find out where things were made and tend to favor products made in my own country or those countries that have close to equivalent trade with my country (meaning they are buying our exports as well as selling us theirs). Sometimes I feel like a walking anachronism for these behaviors.
But I feel a sense of validation about these habits when I walk into my favorite local haunts and see that OPEN sign lit instead of going out business banner sales or all the lights being off and a for sale sign on the building.
My community is very lucky in the fact that many of our locally owned businesses are still in operation. I have seen communities that have all but been shut down due all of the money generated from the community being spent at venues that take the wealth out of the community entirely. No one has jobs, and there are no shops and businesses for people to work at. The only lights on are the bright halogens from the Wal Mart parking lot.
Sorry for rant. This is a topic I have very strong feelings about. If I offended, rest assured it was not my intent, and please accept my preemptive apology.
love,
malkav
Thanks for the thread. My brother and I are making a serious effort to open our own store this year, and this thread is a real eye opener.
I take a discount on the item, I annihilate profit margins. $450~ worth of books off Amazon for $300~? Were they on my shelf, that $150 saved equates to roughly 37% of the sale, a little less than my profit margin, would have actually gone toward those bills of mine, while that $300~ would have paid for the raw product itself.
33.3% by my calculator.
BASIC rate, depending on a given store's size and order rate, is 55-60% of cover. Start talking about those 35-40% discounts off cover, and there goes that margin. When Borders can buy in bulk and nail a 45-50% of cover rate (or less!) and turn around and offer 40% off SRP, they have a 10% margin, but across hundreds or thousands of titles and customers.
Has Alliance changed their rates? I had a discussion with a rep there about a year ago or so, as I was giving strong consideration to buying the local store that went up for sale. At that time, they were offering 47% off cover for most RPG stuff, most of WotC's product line (M:tG, Minis, etc.), and what not. Games Workshop/Warhammer wasn't as good, but if I recall, was around 35%-40%.
Also, please note, that in my post in the other thread, I said that I understand that the FLGS can't offer the same discount as Amazon or Borders. In no way would I expect to see that level of discount at a stocking retailer.
Really, its not that stores don't appreciate the fact ordering online/elsewhere saves you money, because we do, trust me. Its that for a mom & pop operation like myself that discount people are looking for is nearly my entire profit margin. I can squeak a little more out sometimes, but that's cutting things short. And doing that means I need to find the money elsewhere, which means I need higher raw sales; cutting $1 here or there can mean needing to make up $3 in gross sales elsewhere.
But, while not a guarantee, there's the possibility, that if you provide a slight discount from retail price, you sell more copies.
Now, can a 10% or 15% discount create enough sales to offset the difference from retail, and provide more profit? I don't know.
I do know, at least for me, there's definitely a psychological factor about paying retail. These days, when I drop into the local store, I'm not actually there with any shopping agenda. I'm browsing to find something that I'm interested in. Because I see the value of the store, if I find that something that looks cool, I'll buy it (yes, often at full retail) from the store that provided the browsing experience. I owe them that much. If there's other books available to compliment that purchase, it's not likely that my first thought is to go buy them at the local store, because I know I'll be paying retail - however, were the books even mildly discounted (say, at the 10% to 15% level), I am much more likely to return to the store to purchase them.
Play space, support, and encouraging play, that keeps people in the store, allows us to suggest other titles, other cards or minis, accessories, etc. That is where we who do survive derive our money.
I know I'm not the only one for who play space doesn't factor into the equation. I'm actually more likely to visit a store that I know does NOT have play space than one that I know does.
I really wish I had access to experience your store, because I just don't see a lot of support at the game store level. Only one store participated in Free RPG Day - I went to that store, and I spent around $75 there. That wasn't a "local" store, so my local stores lost sales. No promotion for Free RPG Day. The only way you'd know anything was happening is if you visited the website for the promotion, or happened to be in the store and asked about the product that happened to be on the counter.
WotC ran a promo, prior to Free RPG Day, where if you purchased $15 of new WotC product, you got your choice of a freebie that they sent the stores (hardback Orc King by Salvatore, Demonweb booster, Clone Wars starter, etc.) Not one of the four local stores did any kind of advertising (even window signs) to try to draw anyone in to take advantage of it. The biggest of the stores (physical space, stock and sales volume) I visit apparently didn't even promote it in the store, because they still had most of the promo freebies available, and were handing them out on Free RPG Day.
Not one local store made any kind of fuss about the 4E launch, or the Pathfinder RPG launch.
When the D&D Miniatures game was still alive, WotC coordinated a launch event for Demonweb (sealed draft, prize for the winner, alt-paint promo minis for the first 20 participants). One, only one, store in Oregon was participating, and it's 80 miles away from me.
Hell, stores could even offer their own promotions, host their own events in that much-vaunted play space that might draw me in, but nobody does.
Most of the owners and staff of these stores seem really burnt out, or retarded. On one of the few times that a store tried to engage me in a discussion or steer me towards sales, it was to product that I made very clear I had no interest in. I suggested my interest in a couple other products that they stocked, and was told "well, they're OK, I suppose, but you should really try X".
Obviously, the way these stores are ran isn't indicative of the industry as a whole, but when the stores don't do anything more than simply exist, or try to sell me something I don't want, or discourage me from buying what I do want, I have a really hard time supporting them over someone like Amazon.
And, for what it's worth, from as far south as Eugene, OR to as far north as Vancouver, WA, it does seem to be the common way to run a store.
Having a game store entails certain costs, which is what that product mark-up pays for. We don't want to rip anyone off, we just want to pay our bills, have some fun, and continue to make a living ourselves. If you don't want to pay the mark-up, we can't pay those bills. It really is a simple thing at the end, like I said, we get what we pay for~
At no point have I insinuated any sinister attempt by an FLGS to rip anyone off.
It's not that I don't want to pay a mark-up (well, to be honest, I don't), it's that I need to see some value for that mark-up. The cost-to-benefit ratio isn't there.
How do I, as a player, help my local store become the store I want it to be? I've tried to engage them in conversation about product. I've offered suggestions. I've made them aware of promotions or events that they seemed unaware of (PF RPG launch, Demonweb launch, etc.) but they ignore it.
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How do I, as a player, help my local store become the store I want it to be? I've tried to engage them in conversation about product. I've offered suggestions. I've made them aware of promotions or events that they seemed unaware of (PF RPG launch, Demonweb launch, etc.) but they ignore it.
Have you had a frank conversation with the store manager? Let them know what they need to do to get your sales? I love my FLGs but there was a time when they weren't very accommodating to me in the past. At first I avoided the store then finally I went in and sought out the owner and asked him if he wanted to make 600-1400 bucks a month from my gaming group or 0 bucks. He of course responded that he would love to have our patronage.
We had a 20-30 minute talk about the products and services that my players and I wanted to buy from them. They did not immediately turn around and buy 1000 dollars worth of the product I asked for nor did they even start stocking it regularly. But they got some of it and they called me to let me know when it arrived. True to my word, my players and I bought all of the stock that we had requested. Over the years since then if I ask for something they get it on the next shipment. Its not as fast as I could get it on the internet, and I am regularly waiting 2-4 weeks past release date for Paizo product to arrive. But they get enough for me and the PF system has been gathering popularity in the store due to them getting my orders and several more copies to put on their shelves.
I guess the point I am trying to make is approach the person who owns the store and see if they want your money. I have had good and bad luck with small business retail in the past. But if a store caters to a hobby or interest I like but they don't carry my specific favorite genre, I will approach the management and inform them of my wish to shop there. With the exception of the record shops in my town (which seem to believe that they know more about my musical tastes than me and refuse to order LPs for me even though they are carried by their main supplier) I have never really had an experience where a retailer refused to get a product for me. Hell, even the local grocery store stocks a couple of items for me that they did not carry simply because I went into the managers office and asked them too. They were surprised at the request (I am not guessing a lot of folks make such requests) but the next week when I came in the food items I requested were there and have been there since.
As far as free RPG day and special events. Go in an ask about the event. Display your interest. If they don't respond ask them why.
love,
malkav
I had a ball with that WotC event; actually, I kind of cheated ^_^ My customer base is small enough, and Wizards sent out enough product, I rolled it into FRPG Day (the Wizards event was like the whole week before?) and I handed out one item along with the FRPG items to my customers. They thought it was great. Got a story from that, too, but I'll save that a moment...Now, to substance! ^_^
Re: Rates
As I said, late night, math, and me don't always get along ^_^ But, we're talking the same basic numbers otherwise Brian; if you're getting a 47% discount, you're paying 53% of cover. GW product would be 60-65% of cover. So, basically six of one and half a dozen of another. Customer wants a 40% discount on SRP, and I get a 47% discount when I buy it, I suppose that makes the math a bit more obvious. On top of that, Wizards usually has slightly better terms across the board anyway because the supplier deals in volume for Wizards, less so for say Paizo, even less so for little publishers.
As for suppliers, I use Mad Al Distributors out of Alaska, have for the last couple years. I checked in with Alliance originally when I opened, but the minimums at the time I didn't feel I could meet all the time. They do offer better discounts than other companies, I know that much, but I did have a few reasons not to go with them. Besides that, I'm putting my money where my mouth is; Jacob at Mad Al is my rep and he is FANTASTIC. Great guy personally, usually able to help me out in any fashion, and has managed to sneak in some extra units to an allocation for me time to time. He's also been able to toss in extra promo and demo items from the back room, which makes it more exciting for me, and I usually share those with my customers so it makes it more exciting for them. I tried one of the larger distributors and I can't say I was thrilled with the service; I was just another account for a five office organization. Least with Mad Al, I'm a person and I get to deal with people. So I pay a hair more, but I get great service, great recommendations, and a lot of help.
Re: Location
Yes, dm4hire, you're right. It's always location, location, location ^_^ And you're right too; we're not exactly a true destination location. The biggest thing *we* have control over is our internal environment, so let's use it! I'm up for ANY release, pre-release, celebration, game day, special event, etc that I can get my name down and hands on for material. That brings curious folks in, because its that chance to get to try the material hands on.
That said, you've got to weigh your options when it comes to the actual location. As I said by my numbers, my $2500 pays my rent, utilities, insurance, and COGS; with your example, *rent* would be $2500. Just to clear rent you'd have get $6000~ in sales.
Re: Drug dealer, "Pimp"
Yes, lol, this is a fact I am painfully aware of ^_^ Many FNMs this is discussed as players buy pack after pack, or stacks of cards. Too, I try to know my customers and know general limits and I have on occasion actually talked someone down from dropping their last $20 before payday on stuff; figure hey, I'm here all the time, barring a last-minute run on product I'll have the basics at nearly any given time, stop by when you feel you can actually spare the cash.
Re: Other Stores
Well, I think a big disconnect for you Brian, and likely a lot of others, is the simple fact that they're just not doing it right, not putting the real effort in, something I talked a bit about with my first post in the other thread. We CANNOT throw the doors open and expect the world to beat a path to our door. We HAVE to give you a reason to come here, because you're right; it is SO much simpler to order from the comforts of your home. People come to the LGS to interact, not be talked at and not be annoyed. And a lot of that just boils down to being engaged with the store and the customers.
I said I had a story from the Wizards event, and here it is: Got a kid who comes in with his dad regularly during the summer; less so during the winter, but summer its nearly every weekend. He shops my video games, I do a two-for-one trade in: bring me two of yours, pick one from the same generation off the shelf. Kid LOVES Star Wars, he's like seven or eight. Can rattle off anything about the Star Wars universe, video games, or the Clone Wars cartoon. I got the Wizards shipment in for the event and saw the Clone Wars intro packs and knew right away one of those had to go to the kid. I stashed it under the counter when I ran the FRPG day & handed out the Wizards stuff. It was an off week and the kid & his dad didn't show, it was quite a bit later actually, were on vacation or something. I let the dad know we did this event (so as not to creep him out by "randomly" handing his kid a $15 minis pack...that kind of thing creeps parents out) and that I knew his son would really appreciate it. Dad OK'd it and the kid was in shock and awe, but he loved it. Moral of the story: I paid attention to my customers, even the little kid who's in once a week for video games. I also keep buy lists in mind when folks are trading in cards, even if a customer just off handedly says "I need a fourth X for my deck..."- I get them in, sit on them till I can get a hold of the customer, and try to fill out their interests. That kind of attention makes people feel good about coming back.
So really, all of the examples you cite of stores you don't like boil down to the owner, or the employees, just not caring. Not that they don't care about the business, but they don't care as much about the customer, the customer experience and perspective, and so on. Upstream I talked about knowledge, enthusiasm, a general love of stuff. I'll be honest, I hate 4e. BUT, I don't down play the system. I think that, for its design goals, it does a fantastic job of meeting those. If someone is looking for that play style, someone said it right over in the other thread; "If you want the best minis game in the world, go with 4e". Its an ability to look past a personal bias and look for what's right for the *customer*. Stock what they buy, sell them what they like, introduce them to the same thing in their vein. Malkav has the right idea; if they're not getting the hint or doing it on their own, pull them aside and, diplomatically of course, let them know what exactly you want. Chances are you're not the only one if the behavior is that off putting and you'll be doing a service for the local community as a whole.
Personal policy, about the only rule I have on new product lines in the store is I'd like at least four folks in the area interested in it on a regular basis. This allows me to sell incoming product to someone other than one person. Normally this isn't an issue for special orders; I have three guys I order nearly every 4e book for. I don't stock them on the shelves, but I'll order them up as they release. But large quantities, such as booster boxes or cases? Unless someone special orders a full box or case, I won't order cases of YuGiOh or World of Warcraft CCG, frex, because one person wants it. I have a box of Pokemon and had a case of Bakugon I did that for when I opened. Most of that ended up marked down to a dollar and thrown in a bargain bin. So yea, four people means there are players who will buy, even if infrequently. And I make player aware of that; if there is a group, four+ folks who will buy, I'll stock it! All I really need is one group who'll do it consistently to make it worth while.
One of the core problems with most FLGS owners is that they are often remarkably bad businessmen. They got into the business because they love it not necessarily because they have a great business plan.
Back in the day a FLGS/Comic Book store could get by with offering less amenities to the consumer. The local B Dalton might have some RPG stock but nobody there could tell you about it and you might not even be able to find the core book for a RPG line :|
People couldn't buy from a discount distributor (Amazon is in effect distributor/retailer) and while comic books did have subscription deals there was really no way to buy directly from the publisher on most games. Prices were lower per unit, but they were also lower for labor and overhead.
Typical Amenities:
Subscription Service for Comics
Decent Stock and Selection
Occasional Gameplay sessions
General Knowledge of Game Systems
Some retailers could even offer discounts on special orders and to loyal (read: customers who routine purchase significant amounts).
Fast Forward to today
Most gamers have a choice of where to buy from, they can go to the big discount retailer, they can go to a Borders or Barnes & Noble, they can buy direct from some publishers, and they can buy from a FLGS. The FLGS will often have slightly higher prices than a Barnes & Noble (I'm assuming most people have a discount card these days) but will often offer a more extensive selection. Direct from publisher is largely limited to the pdf market. Finally we have the big boy: Amazon.
Amazon typically offers big discounts and a tremendous selection. Only the most extensive FLGS can compete on selection and none can really compete on price.
So in a world where price is king how can a FLGS compete? Trying to chase customers with discounts is pointless and self-destructive. Basically they have to add value to the consumer. That means offering amenities.
Typical Amenities for a somewhat successful CBS/FLGS:
Subscription Services for Comics
Decent Stock and Selection
Ample Gameplay space (difficult in high rent areas but still critical).
Knowledgeable Staff
Demo sessions (Either run by yourself, get a local to run or get a rep (pretty much GW only here))
Possible offer small discounts on special/pre-orders as you are in effect realizing a sale before you actually purchase the product
Focus on what your clientele wants. I've seen way too many FLGS sink a ton of money into collectibles, CCG lines, Toys, and other even more niche products that take up valuable retail space and equal sunken costs.
Not knowing how to deal with sunken costs is a major major issue for alot of FLGS. If you've purchased a product for 50% of face value and you sit on it for years on end you are 1) unable to use that money to purchase new product that might sell and b)losing money each month warehousing a product.
FLGS owners should accept that outside a limited number of evergreen products (D&D core books especially PHB, MtG cards, etc) that RPG book is losing value every month it sits on the shelf. Sure someone might eventually buy it at 100% retail but if it's 10-20% off there are an increased number of gamers who will be willing to purchase it as impulse buy.
Occasionally you need to realize a loss. It sucks but it means you are getting back some percentage of that dollar spent and being able to put it back to work for you. A dollar sitting on a shelf gathering dust and getting sunbleached is not doing you any good whatsoever. Besides an accountant can actually make that loss work for you.
Speaking of accountants, make sure you have one. I've seen more than one successful FLGS go under because they got into tax troubles. It's a definite expense but it can keep you from losing your store to the IRS ;)
Oh and for god-sake, get incorporated. If your FLGS goes under and chances are it will eventually, it's good to be able to walk away without the bankruptcy impacting your personal finances and credit rating.
Advertising, for a basic radio add in my community I was paying around $400 a month, plus fliers and little things we can round that to a $500 total, $700~ in product costs to make that $500.
So, to run the joint with advertising, we're talking $3700 in sales bare minimum. Throw in an employee and we're at around $5500. Start offering steep discounts, ala the 40+%, and that can almost double. All of that is without paying Nate Petersen a dime.
Have you tried advertising in the newspaper? Specifically on the comics page (mon.-fri.) or on the Entertainment page(where the movie theater listings are). If they don't have ads on their comics page, suggest that it might be worthwhile since comics pages typically have no source of revenue(ads) on them. It's bound to be slightly cheaper and I'm not sure what kind of radio station your referring to, but I don't know anyone 18-40 that listens to our LOCAL station unless they're into local sports... and that's still none. Tourist town traffic might be different, especially if it's one of those towns that advertises the local station on the billboard into town. :)
I'll see if I can dig up our prices later on tonight at work and post them. I'm not a sales rep, just one of the flunkies(wage slave) that does layout & design for the ads.
...when the owners are there, both are a pleasure to visit, chat, and usually buy something I hadn't intended to, just as a way to support the stores and the hobby. Which also ties into what you said about needing to be knowledgeable and approachable.
But when the owner isn't there? Wow. What a difference. ... Have you ever gone to a music store (back when there were music stores) and asked the tatooed and pierced goth clerk behind the counter where something could be found, only to have her/him give you that sullen, bored, and slightly condescending look, then point vaguely to a part of the store? Well, at both stores, I get treated to the geekdom version of that.
Oh I hate that, in any store honestly. I'm not expecting everyone who needs a job to work in a field where they're knowledgeable, but you should probably know the basics of the product in-stock or where to find the information. (location, cost, release dates, etc.) If I have difficulties with the hired help I usually just wait until I know the owner is going to be there and visit during those times.
Exception to the rule being the hired help that looks like a GenCon booth babe, then I express to the owner how much I like his new employee and how much money I got lured into spending while she's working, lol.
Re: Newspaper
I'd actually have better luck throwing that money out on the street to attract customers. Realistically, the average target audience for a game store doesn't read the paper. The older end of the spectrum might, but the younger branch and the college crowd doesn't do it reliably enough to make it worth while. When they DO pick up the paper they read the comics, sure, but its not a reliable bet. Radio, at least for the local market, is the far better bet of the two. Music stations are "tuned" in more to their audience, and hitting up a station with a good mix of pop rock and R&B is a good bet, and as a used video game dealer specializing in older systems a station with a good rotation of 80's hits the 20-30 somethings that grew up with the older systems.
If you want to ensure good service from the employees when the owner isn't around, just get to know the owner well enough to drop his name when you're talking to the staff. If the store employees think you might be a friend of their boss, they'll generally try to give good service.
Re: Newspaper
...Radio, at least for the local market, is the far better bet of the two. Music stations are "tuned" in more to their audience, and hitting up a station with a good mix of pop rock and R&B is a good bet, and as a used video game dealer specializing in older systems a station with a good rotation of 80's hits the 20-30 somethings that grew up with the older systems.
Fair enough, having had a look at the rates for newspaper advertising(dismal), I'd say stick with radio anyway going by the numbers you posted above. It was only a suggestion, even if not a very good one.
Fair enough, having had a look at the rates for newspaper advertising(dismal), I'd say stick with radio anyway going by the numbers you posted above. It was only a suggestion, even if not a very good one.
Oh no, its still a very good discussion point, especially if someone is reading these posts looking for some ideas for themselves or a local store. Newspapers are, by default, a medium people think about when it comes to advertising. Its just not very cost effective to buy advertising.
That said, papers have a FANTASTIC use for PR. If you have a smallish local paper more apt to this kind of thing, contact them once a month when you do a special event of some kind. Major product release, special game day, anniversary, etc. See if they'll do a bit on the store, send a photographer, get a place in the paper. These are often free, they'll jump at them when its a slow news period, and its exposure. AND, that kind of thing IS seen by parents and helps establish the business as a respectable place in their minds. That means when their little kid starts talking about the latest J-pop phenomenon and Mom & Dad don't know where to turn, they think "Oh yea, there's that game place, they might know something". For older kids, it also helps them think the place is a safe hangout and will be more likely to allow them to attend tournaments and events. Part of the marketing isn't just to the gamers, after all; a certain age bracket exists where mom & dad still have a lot of influence, and winning them over does wonders for the shop as well.And, even if the paper doesn't do the spots, send in your own photos and notes about events you recently have done, they might run those as filler, and see if they will include regular events (such as FNM) in any kind of community event calendar.
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Hey Nate have you ever done or tried to do a game auction? I bring it up cause the local chain does it. They owner started doing it when he just had one store and it worked well for him. He started it back in the late 80's or early 90's forget now. It helped bring people in and gave them spending cash.
Here is how it worked. He broke it up into 3 days. Friday evening is games workshop stuff. Saturday afternoon is RPG's and related stuff. Sundays is board games/card games. Since you sell video games you might include that as well.
Basically people bring in their old stuff to the store, you might have to bundle a few items together. Do this like 2 weeks before the event and have it last a week. Then on the day of the auction you auction it off and best bid gets the stuff.
The buyer pays for it, cash, check or credit, while the seller gets store credit. This is typically a win, win, win for everyone. The buy gets items they want often at a discount. The seller gets something for items they often normally don't want and get credit for the store to buy more stuff. The store gets X amount of for sure sales by the credit they give out, while keeping the cash.
Locally this has become so popular and big the owner does it 4 times a year. When he started it was once a year but has grown as more and more people bring stuff and as word got out. People from further and further away often drive hours just to come to the auction.
Anyways just a idea that I thought you might find interesting.
Re: Auctions
No, that's something I haven't done. Interesting idea...I doubt I could do something that size, but even doing something like organizing a one-day auction or a gamer flea market could work too~ Bring it in, I advertise it, set it all up, and away we go! I'll have to consider that a bit closer to summer when the general traffic in the area picks up, otherwise it'd be a small group who'd participate, both as buyers and sellers.
Re: Calenders
Yes/No. I do hit up the radio stations and community event calenders with special events that we do, kind of like what I talked about with the papers. My community does have a cable channel for events and what not, but it often boils down to a powerpoint presentation with music, and the only people I'm aware of who have it on is the hospital, and in our community that usually means a large contingent of older folks, no where near the market for the store. BUT, that's my community. In another community with a more vibrant and widely used channel that could be a very good option.
In the thread here, I've talked a lot about what *I've* done, and I'm pretty happy with the results, even the fumbles over the years have taught me things. But, the biggest reason I can still stick it out when most places fold in the first year is simply I adapt. My thoughts above work GREAT for me, in my community, with my client base and with my resources. Someone else, with a different community, client base and resources could do a lot more, a lot less, just a well, or not at all~ It all depends on what works for you & your community~ Don't be afraid to try new things (and an auction/flea market sounds like it has potential for me, thanks ^_^) and move on from what doesn't work.
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Yeah thats how he started it, one auction in July. Some people use to come in then just to buy stuff to take to gencon to sell. Also I should point out when he started it, it was small too he did everything in a single day. He only went to more days as the auction grew.
If I remember it was like the third auction is when he had to break it up into two days. Then he next started doing it twice a year, then he broke it up into three days, then three times a year and now it is four times a year.
As for advertising they have fliers they hand out to everyone that comes in and the clerks tell everyone at least a month in advance it is coming and post the information on the website as well about it.
But even if it is a small even for you, it still gets you basically sales, brings people into your store and is a event they will likely talk about to their friends etc. Thats how his spread, early on it was a lot of word of mouth that would bring in new faces of people that was driving a couple of hours.
As a publisher, I want my products in game stores. Most game stores that are run by sensible people with an eye on making enough to afford beans and rice for Sunday are looking at in terms of "How fast does the box turn?" And unless they have customers aimed at my niche...the answer is 'no'.
I have customers who order off of our web site, and tell us what their local game store is. I will call said game store and ask to talk to the buyer.
I'll say "Hi, customer X has ordered <list of products> because you're having trouble stocking them. Here's our deal - we'll ship that entire order, plus double copies of the starter products, to your store, and tell customer X to pick them up there. They're paying the freight, you get about a hundred bucks of free copies of products for the shelf to help him generate some people to play with."
11 out of 12 stores say "No."
I've always wondered if game stores couldn't charge as though it were a club-house. Members pay a monthly membership (rent) for a game table spot, and you get a 10% discount on product; your game goes on the public calendar of events to be run, etc. For a higher monthly rent, that discount applies to all your buddies at the D&D table. Say it's $20 a month for the basic rent (GM lists events on table, GM gets 10% discount on purchases, 15% on purchases in the game line he's running). Say it's $40/month for the 'group rate' rent, which gets the GM 15% off of everything and everyone on his 'member group list' 10% off of items he recommends. The GM passes the hat (much the same way we do for the pizza and beer fund at other events) to make the rent, everyone else gets the benefit.
Running the retail end of the triangle is beaten for suckitude only by the poor guys working as distributors. The distributors get lied to about every product release, have to keep track of an industry where 3,000 new SKUs are added each month, and are always worried that one of their game store customers will fold with a bunch of money owed, and they're running on the thinnest margins of anyone.
As a publisher, my checks are irregular, but I get paid to write games for a living, and all I have to do is make products that appeal to my core audience.
I've always wondered if game stores couldn't charge as though it were a club-house. Members pay a monthly membership (rent) for a game table spot, and you get a 10% discount on product; your game goes on the public calendar of events to be run, etc. For a higher monthly rent, that discount applies to all your buddies at the D&D table. Say it's $20 a month for the basic rent (GM lists events on table, GM gets 10% discount on purchases, 15% on purchases in the game line he's running). Say it's $40/month for the 'group rate' rent, which gets the GM 15% off of everything and everyone on his 'member group list' 10% off of items he recommends. The GM passes the hat (much the same way we do for the pizza and beer fund at other events) to make the rent, everyone else gets the benefit.
This is a totally cool idea. If the location were acceptable - comfortable, clean, and with the sort of equipment on hand that I might want for my game (large table, snacks available for purchase, easy access to dice/minis to buy on short notice, etc.) I think I'd find it really useful. If you figure you can fit four tables set up like that, at $40 per five hours, fit in two slots per day, that's a couple hundred dollars of potential income just from the "rent". You'd need a lot of space to fit this stuff, and you'd need to be pretty reliable about maintaining it, but it strikes me as a cool source of supplementary income that also gives groups of people a real reason to shop at your store.
I have no idea if this would even be feasible, from a business standpoint, but from the perspective of a customer I find it appealing.
EDIT: Ooh, maybe have a couple cheap desktop computers on hand off to the side with a printer hooked up and a bunch of character generation tools installed (the DDI Character Builder, one or two 3.5 or PFRPG-compatible generators, etc.) specifically for "rent"-paying members to use.
And work out a deal with the local pizza place to offer discounts to your customers while they play.
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This is a totally cool idea. If the location were acceptable - comfortable, clean, and with the sort of equipment on hand that I might want for my game (large table, snacks available for purchase, easy access to dice/minis to buy on short notice, etc.) I think I'd find it really useful. If you figure you can fit four tables set up like that, at $40 per five hours, fit in two slots per day, that's a couple hundred dollars of potential income just from the "rent". You'd need a lot of space to fit this stuff, and you'd need to be pretty reliable about maintaining it, but it strikes me as a cool source of supplementary income that also gives groups of people a real reason to shop at your store.I have no idea if this would even be feasible, from a business standpoint, but from the perspective of a customer I find it appealing.
EDIT: Ooh, maybe have a couple cheap desktop computers on hand off to the side with a printer hooked up and a bunch of character generation tools installed (the DDI Character Builder, one or two 3.5 or PFRPG-compatible generators, etc.) specifically for "rent"-paying members to use.
And work out a deal with the local pizza place to offer discounts to your customers while...
Reading all this makes me think of fantasy flight game's event center
Just noticed their website since i go to their page for info on dark heresy. Yeah, more of their own products and such, kinda more like a gw shop in some ways.
Good Stuff!
A) Free Stuff: Seriously? Turning down FREE stuff? Dear lord, I'll send you my information, every time someone turns you down, I'll take it! I don't always generate *regular* sales, but I'll demo whatever I get my hands on and usually move several copies.
Hell, I don't even have to give anything away; when I first opened, that October I did weekly "Night of the Living Dead Games" events; I'd grab cases of dead, horror themed games, such as Hecatomb, Horrorclix (old sets were DIRT cheap, even if it was technically supported) and a few others. While the forgotten titles are now, obviously, forgotten, the other titles sold like gangbusters. Couldn't keep them in stock. I'd get a box of Hecatomb for like $6, sell the packs at $1 per and make $20 a box! Ditto for the Horrorclix, a case of those for $18, sold them for $48 total.So yea, I'll demo anything!
B) "Clubhouse": While an awesome idea on paper, I don't think the reality stacks, not enough to make it worth while. The location I am currently in I took specifically because I could setup a game lounge like that. I have a massive cooler, I started stocking snacks on a regular basis, stocked the room with hard copies of the core 3.5 books and a smattering of other titles, put in couches, a dry erase board, etc. Not a pimped out tech heaven, but a functional retreat for gamers. No dice, pardon the pun. I even had decent rates from all of my research into similar stores and gaming centers; $15 for an afternoon one-shot, $10 for a regular (bi-weekly or twice a month) group. Figured group of 5 (GM and 4 players) shouldn't have too much trouble justifying $2 or $3 per person to game in a comfortable setting, stocked with gear, free of spouses, children, and distractions (as those are often the most listed reasons I hear groups can't game at someone's house).
That said, I live in a smaller area. In a larger area, where you have larger groups or common, small apartments, you might have a broad enough pool to make it work.
B) "Clubhouse": While an awesome idea on paper, I don't think the reality stacks, not enough to make it worth while. The location I am currently in I took specifically because I could setup a game lounge like that. I have a massive cooler, I started stocking snacks on a regular basis, stocked the room with hard copies of the core 3.5 books and a smattering of other titles, put in couches, a dry erase board, etc. Not a pimped out tech heaven, but a functional retreat for gamers. No dice, pardon the pun. I even had decent rates from all of my research into similar stores and gaming centers; $15 for an afternoon one-shot, $10 for a regular (bi-weekly or twice a month) group. Figured group of 5 (GM and 4 players) shouldn't have too much trouble justifying $2 or $3 per person to game in a comfortable setting, stocked with gear, free of spouses, children, and distractions (as those are often the most listed reasons I hear groups can't game at someone's house).
That said, I live in a smaller area. In a larger area, where you have larger groups or common, small apartments, you might have a broad enough pool to make it...
Spending $3 for a few hours of quality entertainment sounds like an absolute bargain to me.
Scott, meet Nate. Nate, meet Scott.
Scott, you should move to a place near Nate, so Nate can run a gaming clubhouse out of his store.
Scott, meet Nate. Nate, meet Scott.
Scott, you should move to a place near Nate, so Nate can run a gaming clubhouse out of his store.
Alternatively, Nate should relocate his shop to sunny Southern California. Granted, it'll be a great deal more expensive to set up shop here, but you can't beat the climate.
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This has been a fascinating thread.
Could the Gamestop model of focusing on recycling game material help improve margins?
Obviously there is a source/market for used material because I see it for sale on E-Bay, Amazon, used book stores, etc. By allowing customers to trade in old material for some credit toward new or marked up used material, you can extend the revenue life cycle of the products you are selling.
Weather in Ludington MI right now:
21° F
Feels Like: 10° F
Wind: From NW at 10mph gusting to 18mph10-day forecast:
More of the same.
Ahh the joys of Michigan :)
Oh and, to show how small Ludington is...
Population in July 2008: 8,324
Mmmr. Talking about business models, the most successful haunted house here in li'l ol' Indianapolis is a place called "Necropolis," and they have a rather interesting business model. Haunted houses are generally high-revenue ventures, but the problem is that most of their revenues are eaten up by the seasonal rent, which typically skyrockets for the Halloween period. Furthermore, businesses have to rent out the location for longer than just October, as they have to both set up and tear down the props and scenery, which can take up quite a bit of time. It would make sense if they owned the building, since they wouldn't have to pay rent, but the problem is that haunted houses are seasonal in nature.
So, what they did is that they set up a business model where they have something else take up the space during the other 9 months when Necropolis isn't in season -- a paintball place. Paintball is typically a low-profit margin venture, but it has extremely low set-up and tear-down costs, which means they can switch out of it pretty much as the situation requires.
The point I'm trying to make is that gaming groups meet somewhat infrequently (once a week), but that their schedules can be complementary to many other business models. I know that there are many groups in my area, for example, that have incorporated as a university club at IUPUI and get free space (and AV equipment) as a result. I'm sure that another business could probably attract player groups by offering them free gaming space late at night, sell them Mountain Dew without having to make someone go out for a soda run. Maybe the "club" has a single copy of a bunch of AP's, and one group plays each one at a time, then passes it off to the next group when they're ready. I could also see a single "clubhouse" having a library of supplements for quick reference, or even for perusing throughout the day.
I like the idea of a "club" with membership dues and what not, but I doubt it can work as its own business model. It could work quite well, however, with businesses with a lot of square footage and a concession stand. Some private sub-divisions would also be helpful, what with keeping the general noise level down.
The only thing I can think of is a privately-owned non-profit clubhouse. Having a bunch of gamers have their own space they can come to without disturbing each other would have to be specially designed, I reckon. Maybe this is the future of the tabletop/miniatures gaming community -- as private clubs that people go to on Friday and Saturday nights, roll their dice, recite their favorite Monty Python quotes as they gore imaginary ogres, and fight for the hearts and minds of fictional kingdoms.
I can see this being sustainable, but not as a for-profit venture. I can also see the "community library" aspect cutting down on a lot of redundant costs that gaming groups incur. Need a colossal red dragon miniature? Wait, let me go get that from the community chest. Uh, we're fighting how many skums? Let me go grab those real quick. We're fighting on a mountain? Well, good thing we picked up that extra-luxury 1"=5' scale mountain from our friendly neighborhood tablecrafter!
Sorry if this seems a little bit cold -- "redundant costs" are kind of what pays the bills for FLGS's -- but maybe that's what the gaming community needs. I honestly don't know what the future of FLGS's is, but online purchases certainly aren't helping. We need to change the business model from being a distributor of roleplaying materials perhaps to being a bloc consumer which remains afloat through pooling resources and selling consumables (food, drink, dice, and miniatures) and dues (locker rentals, access to the community library, miniatures access, gaming space, gaming tables, and so on and so forth).
I could also see "community days," when the club has open houses so that parents can come in and see what it's all about -- playing with little toys, rolling dice to see whether they hit, and making believe that you're Aragorn, Gimli, or Legolas.
This has been a fascinating thread.
Could the Gamestop model of focusing on recycling game material help improve margins?
Obviously there is a source/market for used material because I see it for sale on E-Bay, Amazon, used book stores, etc. By allowing customers to trade in old material for some credit toward new or marked up used material, you can extend the revenue life cycle of the products you are selling.
I do some of this, mostly for the video games though. Most folks here hoard 3.5 materials as though they are gold, with the exception of one customer who had a collection rather ratty condition and wouldn't budge on an asking price nearly as high as near-mint copies at retail value. The guy gave lip service to the whole "I understand you need to make money" side of things, but just didn't seem to get the concept that I couldn't buy poor-quality product at near-mint near-retail prices. Was the same way with a SNES collection; he had some good stuff, but he wanted as much for it as what I could sell it for on eBay, where I'd also have to shell out 15%~ of the sale to part with it.
Otherwise, doing so for video games has made me OODLES, even accounting for games that are scuffed just right that they don't work. 3.5 I take whenever it turns up, though I have no market for 2E materials. Do the same for cards, brisk trades on Magic commons that way, which also makes me a good deal of money actually.
As to relocation, a friend and his wife DO live out that way, I could always crash on his sofa ;) Course, I just got the fiance back from school and she opened her business three doors down from me, so I don't think that would fly too well. See, that ball and chain again, keeping the gamers down! ^_^
The best game store I've ever been to is Game Empire down in San Diego. They have a large area open for gaming. A wide selection of RPGs, a good selection of board games, CCGs, miniatures, and traditional parlor games (poker, chess, mah-jong, etc).
I can't speak for all areas but I think charging for gaming space is a bad idea. The game stores I've hung out at have always had free gaming areas. A store than runs events (Magic, Warhammer, HeroClix, etc) tends to get loyal customers. If you can afford to give a blanket 10% discount on most items helps too. If that doesn't work make it a discount on purchases of X amount. Friendly staff that are willing to teach people how to game are also a plus. Selling drinks and candy is a good way to capitalize on people who gather in your store but aren't always buying product.
You want to make your store a hang out for gamers. If people are hanging out there, they will meet other gamers and get interested in new games. If you host open meetings for people to find games or try new things people will come back. You want to give people the benefits of a gaming club so they will come back and bring friends. A group of freeloaders playing D&D are an investment for the future.
What specifically to stock definitely should be based on local interest. But if someone comes in and asks about a product, learn a bit about it so next time you can be knowledgeable even if you haven't decided to stock it yet.
Because really, the one thing a local store can do that amazon doesn't is give gamers a community. People are more likely to buy games if it is easy for them to meet others to play them with.
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What specifically to stock definitely should be based on local interest. But if someone comes in and asks about a product, learn a bit about it so next time you can be knowledgeable even if you haven't decided to stock it yet.
I agree with the last of that completely. Few things makes me want to go back to a store than if I feel the store owner/employs understand me and my wants. If they know about the stuff I want and engage me in a conversation about and know what they are talking about. Makes me want to come back and spend money.
I am sure you likely do this already Nate but this something very few stores seem to do sadly.
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I've thought about the gameshop/club idea also. The thing is to make it work I think you need to market not to gamers in general but to a specific set of gamers when it comes to the club. That market is LARPers. LARPers are always looking for a place to play. An idea I had was to incorporate into each room something a kin to the old pull down maps that use to hang in class rooms. The only thing is that each pull down is detailed to a theme. So one layer of pull downs in the room makes it look like a bar while another might make it look like a resturaunt or a movie theatre. Run correctly the game store could close at a given time while the LARPer club stays open til later. Sodas on tap along with other things in the concession would make for an interesting recreational place. It could become a popular dive for people.
Another idea I had was to paint a mural on one wall that was the height comparisson chart from the D&D handbook. Then on the floor have "to scale" footprints for the different monsters so that people could stand in the tracks of a giant or dragon. I got the idea from a movie poster for "Mighty Joe Young" that was actually to scale with a height chart to compare yourself to him. It was really impressive.
A friend of mine just opened a store in the Downriver area of Detroit (shameless plug coming) Shenanigans in Taylor. We both worked the game department of Riders Hobby for many years and learned some things that he applied to his own store:
1. If you are in it "to get more gaming in", forget it. Put the pen down and step slowly away from the loan application...
2. You absolutely positively have to provide a high level of service to your customers. It's been mentioned here, and I can attest to, the numbers of game store owners and employees who do NOT understand this concept. You MUST be willing and able to listen to a customer talk about his characters, you MUST be open to learning about any and all game systems. This isn't to say you have to like/play them all, but you cannot disparage another persons opinion on their favorite game. That being said...
3. The curse of the game store is the "clique" or "old boys" mentality. You never can have enough customers, why treat someone you don't recognize poorly? I used to travel a lot, and I would investigate the LGS wherever I went. If I was treated like a second-class citizen because I wasn't recognized, I left in 15 secs, money in pocket. But there were stores in which I spent hours trading war-stories with the employees, and ALWAYS bought something before I left.
4. The club card can work. A flat fee, charged yearly, for a set discount on every purchase. Two LGS' use it here in Detroit, and it generates a loyalty factor that's hard to beat. Many of the locals have a card for both stores, and easily make up the fee each year in savings.
5. Play space can be key to getting new customers, or getting old customers into new games. I find that people will try something they may not have, if they know they can find people to play with.
6. Local gaming groups are your life-blood. I've set up a Yahoo group (Downriver Game Society) as a way to get gamers in the area together. Shenanigans and Pandemonium (our other LGS) benefit as a result.
Just some things we've seen, some of them already mentioned, but my 2 (25?) cents...