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Okay, so I'm going through spells for a druid I made and I'm looking at Call Lightning and going wait... is this even worth it?
My stance is that as a 3rd level spell, it should be a reasonable distance better than the second level Flaming sphere which does similar damage but only requires a move action to direct to the next target.
And, parts of the Call Lightning spell sound like that is what it should take to use.
From the second paragraph of the spell. My bold.
You need not call a bolt of lightning immediately; other actions, even spellcasting, can be performed first. Each round after the first you may use a standard action (concentrating on the spell) to call a bolt. You may call a total number of bolts equal to your caster level (maximum 10 bolts).
Here is a snip from Flaming Sphere.
The sphere moves as long as you actively direct it (a move action for you); otherwise, it merely stays at rest and burns.
So, although Call Lightning last a good deal longer, you can only call a maximum of 10 bolts with it, effectively reducing what should be a large amount of usefulness to 10 rounds.
Looking at both spells, I cannot see any point where given the choice between the 2nd level Flaming sphere, and the 3rd level Call Lightning that I would ever choose Call Lightning. Flaming Sphere at a lower level has much more versatility, allowing me to continue casting as I do damage, and nearly as much movement as it can ascend or jump 30 ft to reach a target.
I don't understand why Call Lightning is 3rd level unless theres been a clerical error and it's actually a move action to call a bolt.
Sorry for the rambling nature of my post, but what does everyone else think? Any thoughts?
The fact that you can wildshape into an innocuous animal such as a bird or toad and hide while pummeling your enemies with call lightning makes it quite powerful as written. There is no need to make it even more powerful by allowing two bolts each round.
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The fact that you can wildshape into an innocuous animal such as a bird or toad and hide while pummeling your enemies with call lightning makes it quite powerful as written. There is no need to make it even more powerful by allowing two bolts each round.
Perhaps I mispoke, I'm not saying that 2 bolts in one round should be possible. Although they could already do this with Flaming Sphere as a 2nd level spell by casting two of them.
What I'm confused about is the requirement of a standard action each round to target the bolt. Which makes it a good deal less useful then the supposedly less powerful 2nd level spell Flaming Sphere.
Call Lightning is already incredibly awesome.
Druid Wild Shape into an Air Elemental + Outdoors + Call Lightning = KACHOW!!!! KACHOW!!!! KACHOW!!!! KACHOW!!!! KACHOW!!!! KACHOW!!!!
That's actually gonna be my character's main shtick in a friend's new campaign.
You don't have to move call lightning and the save doesn't negate, so it does warrant a level 3 spell, I think.
Oh, and the duration is quite a big deal. You can cast it LONG before a battle and it will last for an entire battle in most cases.
Where'd my list go? I posted and it brought me back to the thread and my post simply wasn't there.
Agh.
Reasons call lightning is better than flaming sphere...
...longer duration.
...can be withheld.
...is not obviously magical in nature.
...bolts hit anyone within range without having to move up to the target.
...do more damage under proper weather conditions (ie - half the time).
...has a save for half instead of save negates.
...can hit multiple targets in a vertical line.
...is not a visible effect when not in use and thus cannot be directly targeted/dispelled.
...is not the most commonly resisted energy type in the game.
The first list was longer...
Honestly, the only thing I can think of that flaming sphere has over call lightning is that a 20th-level caster can potentially attack 20 times with it rather than call lightning's 10 times.
The big difference between Flaming Sphere and Call Lightning is location. The flaming sphere is one sphere, with a given speed, that stops in the square it attacks. Call Lightening, with a range of 150+ feet, that can strike anywhere in that range each round, is much more versatile (and therefore powerful).
Think of Flaming Sphere as a move action to direct an effect, and Call Lightning as 2 fold - casting it sets up the environment you can tap into, and standard actions to call down the effect.
As for spell level, let's look at a few spells balance.
6th level Divine casting
Searing Light - 3d6 ordinary, 6d8 against a vulnerable target, ranged touch.
Inflict Serious - 3d8+6, and Touch...
Call Lightening 6x 3d6 or 3d8, spread out over 6 rounds. total of 18d6. Yeah, a lot more than normal divine spells damage, but spread out.
For giggles: 6th level caster Fireball:
6d6 in 20' radius, at up to 600+ feet away. Yeah, twice as much damage to a creature, and longer range, but that is where Arcane spells excel.
Oh, and the duration is quite a big deal. You can cast it LONG before a battle and it will last for an entire battle in most cases.
I wouldn't call minutes per level "LONG before a battle". More like just long enough that you probably don't need to worry about duration for one encounter, but you probably can't use any leftover bolts on the second encounter.
The Call Lightening spell is basically the same as 3.5... Not like Paizo changed something for balance....
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I don't think its any fault of Paizo, I realize its the same as in 3.5, I just don't see it as being as useful as all of those that have replied do.
Sure, Flaming Sphere, reflex negates, but I can still do something else useful with my action that same round.
And given some of reasons everyone has given, I can see it being slightly more useful than I thought it was before. I still think it's a poor spell for its level, when compared with other similar spells.
Also, you can do both, move the flaming sphere and call down bolts of lightning in the same turn.
Where'd my list go? I posted and it brought me back to the thread and my post simply wasn't there.
Agh.
Reasons call lightning is better than flaming sphere...
...longer duration.
...can be withheld.
...is not obviously magical in nature.
...bolts hit anyone within range without having to move up to the target.
...do more damage under proper weather conditions (ie - half the time).
...has a save for half instead of save negates.
...can hit multiple targets in a vertical line.
...is not a visible effect when not in use and thus cannot be directly targeted/dispelled.
...is not the most commonly resisted energy type in the game.The first list was longer...
Honestly, the only thing I can think of that flaming sphere has over call lightning is that a 20th-level caster can potentially attack 20 times with it rather than call lightning's 10 times.
you posted it in the reincarnation thread, might want to delete that one ^^
I don't think its any fault of Paizo, I realize its the same as in 3.5, I just don't see it as being as useful as all of those that have replied do.
Sure, Flaming Sphere, reflex negates, but I can still do something else useful with my action that same round.
And given some of reasons everyone has given, I can see it being slightly more useful than I thought it was before. I still think it's a poor spell for its level, when compared with other similar spells.
well in the right situations you can deal 3d10 damage per bolt, it might not be all that impressive but you can do so multiple times using only one spell slot, that is pretty decent damage.
The big things in my mind are mobility and save negates vs save for half. Flame sphere is highly restrictive in where it can be put, must target the ground unless you spend a seprate move action to jump it, has a fixed point of origin from which it can attack each turn, and creatures move faster than it. Call lightning hits anywhere, stays arround for long enough for you to get through a battle with it, maybe 2. You don't have to use it or waste it every turn (lack of a move action puts your wizard in place, and often puts the flame spere in a useless position for 1 or more rounds.) Also, it can do d10s (not d8s that someone else said) in the right conditions, which for a druid can be while in wildshape.
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Also, you can do both, move the flaming sphere and call down bolts of lightning in the same turn.
THIS
THIS THIS THIS
It may have seemed like a no-brainer to you, but you just made me almost poop myself with excitement.
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Also, you can do both, move the flaming sphere and call down bolts of lightning in the same turn.THIS
THIS THIS THIS
That is I must admit, a decent use of your time, and will keep said druid doing damage for several or many rounds with only 2 spells used.
Alright, you've convinced me, Call Lightning is still decent for its level. But with the caveat of working alot better in conjunction with another spell at the same time.
Call lightning isn't an upgraded form of flaming sphere. It's an upgraded form of produce flame. Really, there's nothing call lightning has in common with flaming sphere other than involving a Reflex save and being a spell that takes several rounds to take full effect (something it also shares with produce flame).