*Derned' stupid post eating forum monster*
I am making a necromancer lich who uses simulacrums to protect both herself and her phylactery. I was thinking of making a simulacrum of a troll fighter, but I had some questions:
1) How does the halving process work exactly? Say I made a simulacrum of a troll fighter 6, how would the Hit Dice (HD) and Class Levels (CLs) be effected precisely? Would the simulacrum end up having HD 3/CLs 3, or HD 6/CLs 0, or something entirely different?
2) I remember the simulacrum spell used to need a body part or something of the creature to be copied. Does this mean I can simply "make up" a simulacrum since that no longer holds true? For example, could I make a dragon simulacrum even though I've never encountered a dragon, much less collected a body part? How about the King I've never met face to face (but have an accurate painting of), how does the resulting simulacrum possibly have half the king's abilities? Just because its magic? At least in the old rules, I would have to meet the king and steal a hair or something before I could so easily take over the kingdom with a double.
3) Determining things like hit points, saves, base attack, skill, feats, class abilities, ability DCs, etc. for the lowered HD/class levels is usually pretty easy, but what about more exotic abilities? If I made a simulacrum of a spellcasting creature, such as a dragon for example, how is its spellcasting effected, if at all? What about the duration on abilities like shapechange? What about things like natural armor (which often goes hand in hand with CR)? There are so many corner cases that owuld be difficult to interpret/rule on that the spell becomes almost silly to adjudicate unless you are doing something simple like a troll, ogre, or dinosaur.
4) When a simulacrum dies, is it obvious to onlookers that it wasn't a normal creature of its kind? How likely is an observer of the killing to know that it was a simulacrum? Will they need to make a Spellcraft check?
There is just so much left unexplained about this spell. I am sure I will come up with more questions as time goes on. In the meantime, than you for any insight you can provide.
Feel free to post your own simulacrum questions here too if you want.
Does nobody know?
1) How does the halving process work exactly? Say I made a simulacrum of a troll fighter 6, how would the Hit Dice (HD) and Class Levels (CLs) be effected precisely? Would the simulacrum end up having HD 3/CLs 3, or HD 6/CLs 0, or something entirely different?
I did not look up a troll's HD so I am assuming it has 6 from your post. The spell does not specify, so I would give it the first half of the HD, which would only be the racial HD.
2) I remember the simulacrum spell used to need a body part or something of the creature to be copied. Does this mean I can simply "make up" a simulacrum since that no longer holds true? For example, could I make a dragon simulacrum even though I've never encountered a dragon, much less collected a body part? How about the King I've never met face to face (but have an accurate painting of), how does the resulting simulacrum possibly have half the king's abilities? Just because its magic? At least in the old rules, I would have to meet the king and steal a hair or something before I could so easily take over the kingdom with a double.
As for the dragon the rules don't prevent it, but I would require a knowledge check as a DM. As someone once said, "you can't write what you don't know". In this case you should not be able to create what you don't know. As for the king situation, I think that would be a DM's call. I would not allow it unless you knew the king on some level.
3) Determining things like hit points, saves, base attack, skill, feats, class abilities, ability DCs, etc. for the lowered HD/class levels is usually pretty easy, but what about more exotic abilities? If I made a simulacrum of a spellcasting creature, such as a dragon for example, how is its spellcasting effected, if at all? What about the duration on abilities like shapechange? What about things like natural armor (which often goes hand in hand with CR)? There are so many corner cases that owuld be difficult to interpret/rule on that the spell becomes almost silly to adjudicate unless you are doing something simple like a troll, ogre, or dinosaur.
I would think it would only get spellcasting of a dragon equal to the new lowered HD even if it appears as a greater dragon. That is the way I am reading it anyway. As far as duration of things like shapechange they would go off the new level if that is possible. If the creature does not have several stage of advancement like a dragon I would cut the duration in half. It seems to me that you it may be best/easier to create a lesser version of that monster by pretending you are creating a version with less HD or use the Young Creature template.
4) When a simulacrum dies, is it obvious to onlookers that it wasn't a normal creature of its kind? How likely is an observer of the killing to know that it was a simulacrum? Will they need to make a Spellcraft check?
When it dies it melts so I think it is obvious some type of magical affect took place. I would allow a spellcraft check, but if a DM would not allow that then knowledge(arcane) should work. I don't think they would know which spell it was without one of the two previously mentioned skills.
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wow. i didn't realize, but this spell is like... ridiculously good,
Always has been, and always has been poorly explained as to what 'half abilities' even means.
Once you killed a dragon, in 3.X, you could use it's scales to create a nigh-unlimited supply of 'half-strength' dragon servants, flawlessly loyal. You might even run into a dragon who had the spell herself, and kept throwing Simulacra of herself at foes, letting them get cut down willy-nilly, leading the impression that she's some sort of undead foe, able to return from the dead again and again.
Dragons, pretty much already having powers-defined-by-Hit-Dice, were the easiest to adjudicate.
How to adjudicate what sort of powers a half HD Mind Flayer or half HD Efreeti or half HD Solar or half HD Beholder would have was always a fun mind-screw, and a decent way to figure out how a new DM would rule, since it was utterly subjective. Did the creature have full power, but half HD / hit points? Did it have half it's old caster level and no abilities over that new CL? Did it cast half-strength versions of the spells, like every effect it generated was the result of Shadow Conjuration / Shadow Evocation? (I liked that particular solution, from one DM.)
It's the most fantastic game-changing spell you'll find before Polymorph Any Object.
Or the DM will look at it and shake his head, and it will vanish mysteriously from the spellbooks of anyone in his game world. :)
I never liked spells working based on HD limits. I converted all HD based spells to be CR based. I believe it's a better indication of power.
I had a wizard use it to infiltrate a dwarf stronghold, in 3.5, but other than that not really, the spell is broken for norma (player) use
Anyone care to add new discussion to the topic?
James was kind enough to answer many of our simulacrum questions here. I thought you all should know since some of you have asked such questions before.
(Though this is technically my own thread, I'm adding this post so people performing searches to find answers can find what they need more easily.)