A couple of incorporeal questions

[richard develyn]

Hiya,

1) Can I confirm - incorporeal does not mean invisible. Am I right?

2) What's the PF take on an incorporeal creature hitting you from out of a wall or floor. Can you hit it back?

(I think this might be similar to the question about readying an action to hit something with reach as it hits you (when it's not in your reach otherwise) )

3) If you can see Etheral (e.g. Robe of Eyes) can you see incorporeal creatures embedded in stone?

Cheers

Richard

[Remco Sommeling]

1) you are right

2) I haven't seen a PF ruling on this, I suppose readying an action might do but still give the creature cover. I think the target of the incorporeal creature should be treated as having full concealment, and likely forces spot / listen checks on the creature.

It's how I'd rule it, generally I do not want incorporeal creatures in the wall all the time, it just doesn't seem proper fantasy to me, though once in a while it can be fun.

3) I do not think ethereal allows you to see through objects on the ethereal plane just like when creatures on the ethereal plane can not look through objects on the material plane.

It seems to me that incorporeal doesn't mean something like border ethereal anymore, in pathfinder those are two different things.

This is how I think it is, though if anyone can add to this please do.

[LazarX]

richard develyn wrote:

Hiya,

1) Can I confirm - incorporeal does not mean invisible. Am I right?

2) What's the PF take on an incorporeal creature hitting you from out of a wall or floor. Can you hit it back?

(I think this might be similar to the question about readying an action to hit something with reach as it hits you (when it's not in your reach otherwise) )

3) If you can see Etheral (e.g. Robe of Eyes) can you see incorporeal creatures embedded in stone?

Cheers

Richard

1. Correct. there's nothing saying however that a creature can not be both incorporeal and invisible though.

2. If it can reach out to strike you, there's enough exposed for you to strike back... provided of course you have the proper means to do so.

3. If line of sight is blocked then no you can't. But in that case, they can't see you either.

[Airhead]

Incorporeal creature attacking from within the walls.

Kinda Disneyish, but he has to poke his head out to see what he's hitting and his arm to hit...full round attack and that is where he stays. This should give him hard cover (+4 to AC)as well as being incorporeal.

Now, if he only makes a single attack and then moves back into the wall...kinda cheesy. But you can still get him with readied actions after you know what's coming.

Incorporeal only seems to mean you cannot be criticaled/immune to death magic/etc. Not a miss chance that I see in the pdf.

[james maissen]

richard develyn wrote:

Hiya,

1) Can I confirm - incorporeal does not mean invisible. Am I right?

2) What's the PF take on an incorporeal creature hitting you from out of a wall or floor. Can you hit it back?

(I think this might be similar to the question about readying an action to hit something with reach as it hits you (when it's not in your reach otherwise) )

3) If you can see Etheral (e.g. Robe of Eyes) can you see incorporeal creatures embedded in stone?

Cheers

Richard

1) Incorporeal does not mean invisible. Ethereal, however, will be.

2) You can ready to strike them as they emerge to attack (under incorporeal in the bestiary). They have cover, you have full concealment (note that incorporeal in an object knows when something is adjacent to that object so they have pinpointed the square).

3) You could see Ethereal creatures, as in the ethereal plane there isn't that stone present. If an earth elemental were ethereal and within ethereal stone, then no. Basically if you can see into the Ethereal plane you see both the material (which is blocked by the stone) and the Ethereal (which I take it that we are assuming is unblocked).

Lastly recall that the 50% chance for incorporeal critters to avoid damage from a material source is NOT a miss chance. Thus a blurred shadow is very annoying...

-James

[Remco Sommeling]

the above post I have some notes :

3) most incorporeal creatures are not actually in the ethereal as it stands now, few creatures are.. like phase spiders, ghosts and xill.

lastly the 50 % misschance has been removed in pathfinder it is now converted in half damage from any source.(ghost touch weapons and force effects excepted)

[Imper1um]

Let me put something down about Incorporeal.

Incorporeal is a plane that is on the same existance of the Corporeal Realm. It is slightly 'phase' shifted off of the current realm. An incorporeal creature can 'reach' into the Corporeal realm, which means the creature must be in a valid incorporeal Space every move (one space away from a valid corporeal space).

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules #TOC-Incorporeal-Ex- wrote:

An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object's exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own. It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object. In order to see beyond the object it is in and attack normally, the incorporeal creature must emerge. An incorporeal creature inside an object has total cover, but when it attacks a creature outside the object it only has cover, so a creature outside with a readied action could strike at it as it attacks. An incorporeal creature cannot pass through a force effect.

So, on the round of an attack, it has Cover (not Total Concealment). If it does not attack on a turn, it has Total Concealment. It also cannot attack a creature from inside an object unless it's within 5 feet, so backing up or readying an action will work.

As for Number 3, unless you have X-Ray Glasses, no, you cannot see them.

[Yaba]

I have a related question. If an ethereal being is fighting an incorporeal being that isn't ethereal, how do the two interact? Is it the same 50% damage / 50% miss chance as an ethereal or incorporeal being has with a material being? Is there no interaction at all? Do they interact as if on the same plane?

[Drejk]

Yaba wrote:

I have a related question. If an ethereal being is fighting an incorporeal being that isn't ethereal, how do the two interact? Is it the same 50% damage / 50% miss chance as an ethereal or incorporeal being has with a material being? Is there no interaction at all? Do they interact as if on the same plane?

There is no interaction unless they possess abilities that allow them to reach between Material and Ethereal planes. Incorporeal creature using force effects can affect ethereal creature but I am not sure if reverse is possible (I have that strange notion that somwhere were ruled/said that force effects extend to ethereal plane from material plane but when created on ethereal plane they do not extend to material, might be old material, like 3.5 or even 3.0, however).