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Who I'm hoping to see.
Lem- a halfling bard as king to a kingdom, hells yeah!
Setyiel- I think his character would make for some interesting choices in this AP
Lini- That would be an interesting story, how do you build a kingdom and still retain a faithful tie to nature?
Harsk- Because a party of shorties that isn't human-centric would be fantastic for roleplaying in this human-centric world.
Who are you hoping to see and why?
If an official wants to say who's slated for this path, I wouldn't mind that either.
Maybe it was the big picture of Sajan and Amiri fighting wyrms. I think people are betting on Lini and Harsk to fill the other two spots they're overdue an AP and this one has lots of wilderness themes.
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Lem was just in Council of Thieves. He needs a break!Wow, I'm not going to lie that I'm a bit dissapointed that Lem didn't make the cut, I think he would be awesome in this particular AP.
still cool to know the lineup if it does seem like some odd choices personally.
Oops, I totally was thinking of the iconics in LoF as the Iconics in CoT lol. Which left a lot of options, okay so this AP has the 4 that weren't used yet for their second run lol. I still think Lem would've been balls out awesome in this AP but yeah 2 in a row is a bit much lol.
I'm a glutton for punishment.
Who's in the AP after Kingmaker, The Serpent's Skull?
Edit: Please?
Same line-up as Legacy of Fire. Interesting.
Same line-up as Legacy of Fire. Interesting.
eh always good to go with the classics
Serpent's Skull is going to feature Valeros, Ezren, Merisiel, and Kyra.
Thanks, Chief!
Are you just sticking with those parties now?
Like after Serpent's skull will it be Seelah, Lem, Seoni and Seltyiel?
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Serpent's Skull is going to feature Valeros, Ezren, Merisiel, and Kyra.I'm a glutton for punishment.
Who's in the AP after Kingmaker, The Serpent's Skull?
Edit: Please?
Yeah I have to ask a big why, that lineup has been done to death (cleric, wizard, rogue, fighter) and I didn't even have a problem with you guys doing it once, but having that lineup twice in a row? why?
Creative Director
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Yeah I have to ask a big why, that lineup has been done to death (cleric, wizard, rogue, fighter) and I didn't even have a problem with you guys doing it once, but having that lineup twice in a row? why?Serpent's Skull is going to feature Valeros, Ezren, Merisiel, and Kyra.I'm a glutton for punishment.
Who's in the AP after Kingmaker, The Serpent's Skull?
Edit: Please?
When we pick our iconic parties, we generally try to pick characters who fit the theme of the AP first and then make for a balanced party second.
For Council of Thieves, we picked Lem and Seltyiel because they're both from Cheliax and it made sense to have them adventure in their homelands. We added Seelah because we wanted to show off how a paladin can be in the same group as an evil character in Pathfinder. And then we added Seoni because we hadn't used her in a while and the group needed some arcane stuff.
For Kingmaker, we chose Amiri because she's a barbarian and there's lots of barbarian stuff going on in the AP; also, she'd make a pretty cool ruler. We chose Lini and Harsk because as the druid and ranger, they're VERY strong in wilderness areas and Kingmaker has a very strong widlerness theme. We were originally going to put Ezren in the group to bolster the group's arcane stuff, but then we realized that we hadn't done anything with Sajan for a long time and we kinda felt sorry for him so we put him in the AP instead.
For Serpent's Skull, we're going to be doing an VERY old-school pulpy adventure that will feel like Raiders of the Lost Ark or Tarzan or the old D&D adventure "Dwellers of the Forbidden City." As such, it made sense to put Merisiel in the group because she's the best at taking care of traps. And we put Valeros in the group because he's the classic fighter and of all the iconics, the most likely to be lured into adventure by the prospect of finding a lost city filled with treasure. We added Ezren because, again, we wanted an element of arcane in the AP, but more because Nethys is one of the deities in this AP and there's a lot of old magic/Azlant magic elements in it; an arcanist and someone with lots of knowledge (especially in history and arcana) will have fun. And the group at that point had NO healing, so we added Kyra to the group because she's the strongest healer of the iconics. That this was the same group we'd used before honestly didn't even occur to us until it came up in this thread.
Going forward, we'll be using the same reasoning to pick our iconics. Eventually we'll get to a situation where we'll repeat one twice in a row, and we might even some day bring in one of the APG base classes (although this is unlikely).
And honestly, the thought that folks would be annoyed by us repeating a group mix never occurred to me. Why would this be a problem? If it's a matter of not seeing a favorite iconic in an AP, this pattern would GUARENTEE seeing that favorite once per three, after all...
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And honestly, the thought that folks would be annoyed by us repeating a group mix never occurred to me. Why would this be a problem? If it's a matter of not seeing a favorite iconic in an AP, this pattern would GUARENTEE seeing that favorite once per three, after all.
Well there could be various reasons one that comes to mind is that is the stereotypical adventuring party and that to some people comes across as dull. My only problem is that I feel certain Iconics are overused (Va1erous and Seoni I'm looking at you two) but that is more a problem with how the iconics are represented in a all the products in general.
Well that and I like a lot of vaiety in the iconic groups in general so repeating the same group in such short order means not only is that group the same but the variety in the next Ap will be lessened as well.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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My only problem is that I feel certain Iconics are overused (Va1erous and Seoni I'm looking at you two) but that is more a problem with how the iconics are represented in a all the products in general.
Valeros and Seoni have been used more than anyone else, but they were also the first two released. In some ways, I'd consider the two of them to be the iconic Iconics, appearing in virtually all the modules in the first year and a half, gracing the covers of the first two AP volumes and later the cover of the Core Rulebook. It would be nice to see them put on the back burner for a year or so, just so some other iconics can share some of that spotlight, but if they're the most marketable, Paizo has to consider that as well.
<snip>
For Serpent's Skull, we're going to be doing an VERY old-school pulpy adventure that will feel like Raiders of the Lost Ark or Tarzan or the old D&D adventure "Dwellers of the Forbidden City." <snip>
*Weeps with joy*
I love it when you give us these "glimpses into the great brain of Paizo" posts. Interesting stuff always pops up.
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And honestly, the thought that folks would be annoyed by us repeating a group mix never occurred to me. Why would this be a problem? If it's a matter of not seeing a favorite iconic in an AP, this pattern would GUARENTEE seeing that favorite once per three, after all...
I'm not annoyed, I don't know what it is, but my posting style seems to lead to you thinking all the time that things I say are coming across way more intense and serious than they are. I love your products and I've never been upset about them, even if it's come across that way. I'm more curious and expressing my opinions (i.e. that the original 4 classes as a team have been done to death at this point)
Kevin made a good post explaining a lot of my feelings on it. And I'll add that I'd much prefer to see parties that are missing certain "roles" in the party, a team that lacks an arcane caster heck serpents skull would've been perfect as you said at the end of the 4 that you were lacking an arcane class at the end of the decision making process so threw in Ezren), or a traditional meatshield class, before seeing the same class combinations we see over and over in other products. Also I'd like to see characters paired with different groups before seeing them fight together again and again. Lets face it Valeros, Kyra, and Merisiel will have been grouped together 3 times in a row now. I don't necessarily want to see a favorite iconic, I don't actually have a favorite Iconic. But I like to see different combinations and unusual parties. And honestly it does start to be boring to see the same people grouped together again and again and again.
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Creative Director
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It would be nice to see them put on the back burner for a year or so, just so some other iconics can share some of that spotlight, but if they're the most marketable, Paizo has to consider that as well.
Well... by the time Serpent's Skull rolls around, we'll have had a year with no Valeros... and by the end of THAT AP we'll have had a year with no Seoni.
But yeah; they're the first two we had Wayne paint for us, and he did those to on a super advanced schedule so there was a several month gap between Seoni and Merisiel. For the first several months of our Pathfinder lines, we only had those two; if you check out the early modules, you'll see us using placeholer art for the poor cleric and rogue over and over...
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Director of Brand Strategy
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It would be nice to see them put on the back burner for a year or so, just so some other iconics can share some of that spotlight, but if they're the most marketable, Paizo has to consider that as well.Well... by the time Serpent's Skull rolls around, we'll have had a year with no Valeros... and by the end of THAT AP we'll have had a year with no Seoni.
That's true. And as time goes on, it'll eventually balance out. In 2010, one year's worth of products is a third of Pathfinder's history, but in another few years, those early modules and APs will constitute a much smaller percentage of total products.
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Well... by the time Serpent's Skull rolls around, we'll have had a year with no Valeros... and by the end of THAT AP we'll have had a year with no Seoni.
Well unless you count the modules, companions, chronicles, and christmas cards they have been on. (Like I said it is a general feeling of overuse in all the lines not just the Ap)
Can someone give me a run down of which iconic name is associated with each class.
Valeros - Fighter
Seoni - SorcererSeltyiel - Fighter/Wizard (Eldritch Knight)
Ezren - Wizard
Lem - Bard
Merisiel - Thief
Lini - Druid
Seelah - Paladin
Amiri - Barbarian
Kyra - Cleric
Harsk - Ranger
I think I remembered them all. Is that what you need?
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Creative Director
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Well unless you count the modules, companions, chronicles, and christmas cards they have been on. (Like I said it is a general feeling of overuse in all the lines not just the Ap)
Well... by the time Serpent's Skull rolls around, we'll have had a year with no Valeros... and by the end of THAT AP we'll have had a year with no Seoni.
Well... to a certain extent that's their job. Mickey Mouse might feel overused, or the now-ubiquitous Coca-Cola version of Santa, but they serve their corporate masters quite well! :)
I think I remembered them all. Is that what you need?
Sajan - monk
Thanks, Tbug.
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Valeros - Fighter [human male]
Seoni - Sorcerer [human female]
Seltyiel - Fighter/Wizard (Eldritch Knight) [half-elf male]
Ezren - Wizard [human male]
Lem - Bard [halfling male]
Merisiel - Thief [elf female]
Lini - Druid [gnome female]
Seelah - Paladin [human female]
Amiri - Barbarian [human female]
Kyra - Cleric [human female]
Harsk - Ranger [dwarf male]
Sajan - Monk [human male]
The blog tag Iconics will pull up all the blog entries on them which will include illustrations and stats.
I'm not annoyed, I don't know what it is, but my posting style seems to lead to you thinking all the time that things I say are coming across way more intense and serious than they are.
LKL, it might be the Vraxeris Avatar. That guy looks like a complainer.
*I* look like an emancipator!
"Abe Lincoln smash!!!!" *RAWR*
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Creative Director
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Paizo could really shake things up in the next AP Seoni is in, and have her die and then reincarnated as a half-orc, permanently!
Eew... gross. Won't happen.
The fact that Seoni is so recognizable is a GOOD thing. Changing her appearance would be like Disney deciding to turn Mickey Mouse into Mickey Parrot. Or changing superman into a fat two-headed talking cow. Kinda defeats the purpose of having iconics if you don't use them as iconics.