The half-orc's type doesn't seem to be listed. Is it humanoid (orc), humanoid (human), humanoid (human & orc), or something else entirely?
The half-orc's type doesn't seem to be listed. Is it humanoid (orc), humanoid (human), humanoid (human & orc), or something else entirely?
I would treat it as humanoid (human, orc)
Based on outsider (extraplanar, evil, fire)
Now someone please give me a free nobel prize and a grande late.
Half elves and half orcs have both. (Human and either elf or orc)
Thanks for the clarification, but it's not really made clear in the actual text, is it?
Half elves and half orcs have both. (Human and either elf or orc)Thanks for the clarification, but it's not really made clear in the actual text, is it?
Orc Blood: Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.
I'm not quite sure where the confusion would come in (unless you weren't reading the stat block, just the description). If item or effect X is more effective against humans (bane off the top of my head) the effect would trigger. If it were checking against orc, by that same trait description it would trigger as well. If you have a bane (human) and bane (orc) weapon they would both trigger (and consequently it would hurt, a lot).
Half elves and half orcs have both. (Human and either elf or orc)Thanks for the clarification, but it's not really made clear in the actual text, is it?
Orc Blood: Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race.I'm not quite sure where the confusion would come in (unless you weren't reading the stat block, just the description). If item or effect X is more effective against humans (bane off the top of my head) the effect would trigger. If it were checking against orc, by that same trait description it would trigger as well. If you have a bane (human) and bane (orc) weapon they would both trigger (and consequently it would hurt, a lot).
The Orc Blood ability =/= a defined subtype (though it does accomplish much of the same).
Creative Director
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Half elves and half orcs have both. (Human and either elf or orc)Thanks for the clarification, but it's not really made clear in the actual text, is it?
Their racial traits spell it out in their "Elf blood" or "Orc blood" traits. Since none of the core races have monster style writups, and since we generally don't bother listing racial subtypes in stat blocks for these core races, it's not something that sees print often. But the Elf Blood and Orc Blood abilities pretty much mean the exact same thing as having "Elf and Human" or "Elf and Orc" humanoid subtypes. Since there's nothing in the race chapter of the core rulebook that talks about creature types, that's why we handled it that way.
Their racial traits spell it out in their "Elf blood" or "Orc blood" traits. Since none of the core races have monster style writups, and since we generally don't bother listing racial subtypes in stat blocks for these core races, it's not something that sees print often. But the Elf Blood and Orc Blood abilities pretty much mean the exact same thing as having "Elf and Human" or "Elf and Orc" humanoid subtypes. Since there's nothing in the race chapter of the core rulebook that talks about creature types, that's why we handled it that way.Half elves and half orcs have both. (Human and either elf or orc)Thanks for the clarification, but it's not really made clear in the actual text, is it?
Wow. Had I just waited 3 more seconds before posting... :P
I still don't see it as being as clear as simply saying it's a Humanoid (human, orc). I usually put down the creature type on our homebrew character sheets, and when working on a half-orc, I realized that it wasn't defined like it was in v3.5. Anyways, thanks for the clarification. Now I know what to write down on the character sheet.
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Creative Director
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I still don't see it as being as clear as simply saying it's a Humanoid (human, orc). I usually put down the creature type on our homebrew character sheets, and when working on a half-orc, I realized that it wasn't defined like it was in v3.5.
It's ABSOLUTELY more efficient and more clear to say "humanoid (human, orc)." But again... the definitions of monster subtypes aren't in the race chapter of the book. With the exception of ranger favored enemies and bane weapons... those rules actually aren't in the core rules at all; their primary place to be defined is in the Bestiary.
ALSO: The race chapter was already SUPER clogged with info. We had a hell of a time making all that stuff fit. Squeezing in the rules for what monster types are would have resulted in us having to cut something, and the rules themselves would have felt weirdly out of place.
Now someone please give me a free nobel prize and a grande late.One Nobel Late comming right up...
That's.. close enough. I accept.
It's ABSOLUTELY more efficient and more clear to say "humanoid (human, orc)." But again... the definitions of monster subtypes aren't in the race chapter of the book. With the exception of ranger favored enemies and bane weapons... those rules actually aren't in the core rules at all; their primary place to be defined is in the Bestiary.
ALSO: The race chapter was already SUPER clogged with info. We had a hell of a time making all that stuff fit. Squeezing in the rules for what monster types are would have resulted in us having to cut something, and the rules themselves would have felt weirdly out of place.
Curiously, the Orc entry in the bestiary does not actually have the orc subtype.
Furthermore, half-orcs do not have light sensitivity, hence the orc subtype shouldn't technically apply.
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Furthermore, half-orcs do not have light sensitivity, hence the orc subtype shouldn't technically apply.
Orc Subtype: This subtype is applied to orcs and creatures related to orcs, such as half-orcs. Creatures with the orc subtype have darkvision 60 feet and light sensitivity (half-orcs do not have light sensitivity).
You could complain about drow not having low-light vision despite their elf subtype.
Talk about a necro.
If you don't have actual racial hit dice, you aren't guaranteed everything from your type or subtype.
For instance, aasimar and tieflings, despite being outsiders, do not gain proficiency in all martial weapons.
See James Jacobs' comments on the matter:
I didn't know outsiders treat as outsiders with racial HD so they should not be immune to the hold person type spells. I know devs have said they don't get the other benefits outsiders get such as automatic proficiency with martial weapons and so on.They're saying here right now if that counts.
Weapon and armor proficiencies are basically "rewards" you get for taking a class level OR getting a racial hit die. Some races (like elf or tengu) do grant specific weapon proficiencies regardless of Hit Dice, and in those cases, they have a specific racial trait that lists that.
But beyond that, a creature that does not possess racial Hit Dice gains its weapon and armor proficiencies pretty much ONLY by taking class levels and feats. Thus, a tiefling or aasimar does not gain the standard Outsider trait of "proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry," and the human doesn't gain the standard Humanoid trait of "proficient with all simple weapons."
It's not really spelled out as clearly as it probably should be, I agree, but it's also kind of common sense as well.
THAT SAID: it's true that spell effects DO care about type. Hold person won't hurt a tiefling or aasimar, for example. Neither will charm person.
This bit of anti-clarification provided by James only serves to muddy up the waters even more, as we no longer know what 0-HD creatures get from their types/subtypes, if anything.
If you don't have actual racial hit dice, you aren't guaranteed everything from your type or subtype.
For instance, aasimar and tieflings, despite being outsiders, do not gain proficiency in all martial weapons.
See James Jacobs' comments on the matter:
** spoiler omitted **
This bit of anti-clarification provided by James only serves to muddy up the waters even more, as we no longer know what 0-HD creatures get from their types/subtypes, if anything.
I don't know if I agree with you on it muddying the waters, it seems fairly straightforward. You don't automatically get the traits listed in the bestiary if you don't have racial HD of that type. If you don't have racial HD, but instead have class HD you only get the traits the race specifically states you get (if any). If you have a type/subtype that a spell works on, you are a valid target, otherwise it doesn't.