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Developing a character for Pathfinder Society is slightly different than for a home game: Certain things have to be taken under careful consideration, while still going for an exceptional and remarkable character, holding true to both the game rules and the background fluff.
As such, I decided to get some feedback on a character I'm developing for Pathfinder society (not sure if this sort of thread would go here otherwise). At any rate, the Character: Curon Hifor, Human, Paladin. While paladins typically have to be more well-rounded than some other characters, I decided to go with this particular route:
Strength 16 (Improved to 18) - He's incredibly strong and while he does carry a Longsword in honor of Iomeade, his favored weapon is a Greatsword.
Dexterity 10 - Nothing truly special. He's about as average as humans go when it comes to agility and coordination. This was also selected as having an above-average Dex stat doesn't really help all that much, having a below-average Dex might be detrimental in the long run.
Constitution 12 - He's tougher than some, but he's not invincible. Obviously, you'll want some kind of Con bonus since Paladins fight up close and personal. Plus, you don't go through military-esque training without toughening up a little.
Intelligence 10 - While I would like to grab Combat Expertise, I'm not sure how one would get the points needed to boost this stat all the way to 13. As such, Curon will have to be mostly average. Take a little, give a little, I suppose.
Wisdom 8 - You heard me. One of the unique flaws I was thinking about this particular character was, while he is incredibly devout, he would have trouble physically manifesting Iomaede's will through divine magical means. Plus, he's not exactly the most observant person in the world.
Charisma 16 - He has a strong personality and a strong conviction in what he's doing is right. Charisma is one of those high-points for Paladins, as almost all of their abilities are based off of Charisma.
As I said, I wanted to get some feedback on this character concept before I set it down in stone. Thoughts?
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Strength 16 (Improved to 18)
Dexterity 10
Constitution 12
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 8
Charisma 16
It strikes me that you are burning a lot of points on abilities that don't reflect your class skills very well, and you are sacrificing your spell casting ability for 1 HP/level. Do you not expect to make 5th level, or just don't want to be able to cast?
I would take 2 10s and 4 14s route and increase the Str to 16 being a human. It's only +3 not +4, but with BAB and a combat feat or two you more than make up for it. You don't have any Str based class skills and Cha is actually your least well represented in your skill choices, so again the bonus there seems to be a little wasted.
Str 16 (Improved from 14)
Dex 10
Con 10
Int 14
Wis 14
Cha 14
If you really want to play up his 'unobservant' nature you could swap the Wis and Con, but again you are basically sacrificing your ability to cast spells.
Disclaimer - I have never played a Paladin under Pathfinder RPG rules, nor do I claim to be any kind of expert. These are just my initial observations based on the numbers.
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Wisdom doesn't govern any class abilities in Pathfinder for the Paladin, including spellcasting. It's only useful for a few marginal skills. Charisma is far more important.
I thought you needed Wis + Spell level to cast and with an 8 Wis you cannot cast period. But I guess I was thinking Cleric. See disclaimer :)
Switch Wis and Con then!
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Wisdom doesn't govern any class abilities in Pathfinder for the Paladin, including spellcasting. It's only useful for a few marginal skills. Charisma is far more important.
Really? I could have sworn you needed Wisdom to cast Divine spells for Paladins...
At any rate, I was wanting a 16 in Strength (Improved to 18) in order to both squeeze another point 'To hit' as well as do more damage with the Two-Handed Sword. 16 in Charisma also boosts the abilities of Paladins significantly. However, I can see your arguement, as that route makes him more well-rounded. I'm just not sure if I want him to be more well-rounded or not at this point...
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Really? I could have sworn you needed Wisdom to cast Divine spells for Paladins...At any rate, I was wanting a 16 in Strength (Improved to 18) in order to both squeeze another point 'To hit' as well as do more damage with the Two-Handed Sword. 16 in Charisma also boosts the abilities of Paladins significantly. However, I can see your arguement, as that route makes him more well-rounded. I'm just not sure if I want him to be more well-rounded or not at this point...
I was confused about this also, but here is the text from the PDF...
Spells: Beginning at 4th level, a paladin gains the ability
to cast a small number of divine spells which are drawn
from the paladin spell list presented in Chapter 10. A
paladin must choose and prepare her spells in advance.
To prepare or cast a spell, a paladin must have a
Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The
Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a paladin’s spell
is 10 + the spell level + the paladin’s Charisma modifier.
So with a 16 Cha you can cast 6th level divine spells, except that your spell levels as a Paladin max out at 4th so for spell casting purposes you wouldn't need more than a 14 Cha. Again you are looking at a +2 (at 14) vs a +3 (at 16).
Smite Evil - Cha bonus on to hit, level on to damage. With a 16 (or 18!) Str this is already going to be a +3 or +4 on both so for a once a day ability the +1 here isn't going to be well spent. Even after 4th level when you pick up another use per day.
Divine Grace - Cha bonus to all save at 2nd level. +2 vs +3 here is ok, not spectacular, but ok.
Lay on Hands - 1/2 level + Cha bonus times per day starting at 2nd level. One extra time per day here isn't going to be that important unless for some reason you are the main party healer. Plus, hopefully you are rocking some heavy armor, shield and +2 dex bonus so you are getting hit much. Looks like you are going big sword no shield route though, but still :)
Channel Energy - At 4th level you can start doing channel as a cleric would which is cool and Cha based, but again you are talking about 1 more (or less) time per day. Not stellar.
Under your original point spread you aren't getting more than 2 ranks / level. As for your class skills:
The paladin’s class skills are Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha),
Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (nobility)
(Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride
(Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
You have 4 Int based, 3 Wis based, 2 Cha based and 1 Dex based.
I am currently playing a 3rd level Cleric, who I love dearly, but I 'over spent' to get an 18 Wis and I regret it a little. (Obviously).
Here's my two cents...
You're doing fine. You could run this character as is, and have fun. No glaring problems. But, I played a 12 Con paladin for years, and I felt a little fragile.
I think you'll want a 14 Con, and you can get it by starting with a 15 in Charisma. You can push it to 16 at 4th level; you won't be casting before then anyway.
How do you feel about RP? As a high charisma character, you may want to think about investing in Diplomacy. For a minimal investment (say, 2 skill points) you'll be better than most characters ever get.
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The disadvantages of low Dex (and lower Con, depending) can be overcome partially by buying armor, and lots of it. If you prioritize buying good armor and defensive items, you'll do all right.
You may want to think about the sword and shield style. Yes, it's less damage, but you'll last longer.
Even if this isn't your primary fighting style, you'll want to have a one-handed weapon and a shield available. There will be a day when you're the only front-line character in the group, and you'll really need it.
I'd go sword and shield, and buy a MW greatsword for tables where there are already a lot of melee-types.
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Which of the 5th level options are you thinking about? The shield is a better choice if you go with horse, because you can just as easily work with lance and shield, and you'll get to use it more often.
If you go with the weapon bond, the shield won't matter as much, but you'll be able to sink you money into defenses more easily.
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I was confused about this also, but here is the text from the PDF...
So with a 16 Cha you can cast 6th level divine spells, except that your spell levels as a Paladin max out at 4th so for spell casting purposes you wouldn't need more than a 14 Cha. Again you are looking at a +2 (at 14) vs a +3 (at 16).
Spells: Beginning at 4th level, a paladin gains the ability
to cast a small number of divine spells which are drawn
from the paladin spell list presented in Chapter 10. A
paladin must choose and prepare her spells in advance.
To prepare or cast a spell, a paladin must have a
Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The
Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a paladin’s spell
is 10 + the spell level + the paladin’s Charisma modifier.
Huh. I could have sworn it was Wisdom, but hey, I won't complain. Nice to see it spelled out however, as the bonus does seem rather marginal.
While separate, all the isolated cases seem rather small and marginal, but when you look at it overall, those 'small' bonuses really seem to add up, at least to me it does. However, you are correct about the whole skills bit, and here I was thinking I might get away with a 'trade' skill...I might have to seriously rethink that...
Here's my two cents...
You're doing fine. You could run this character as is, and have fun. No glaring problems. But, I played a 12 Con paladin for years, and I felt a little fragile.
I think you'll want a 14 Con, and you can get it by starting with a 15 in Charisma. You can push it to 16 at 4th level; you won't be casting before then anyway.
How do you feel about RP? As a high charisma character, you may want to think about investing in Diplomacy. For a minimal investment (say, 2 skill points) you'll be better than most characters ever get.
Thanks for the words of encouragement, both of ya!
I was also worried a little about the 12 Con, as I've gotten used to having at least 14 Con on most of my characters before. I like where you're going with the idea to change it, however, putting Charisma at 15 and Constitution at 14. I'll definitely be making that change.
As for RPing, I feel fairly comfortable at it. I was already considering taking Diplomacy for a skill anyhow, but that does seem like a fairly good investment.
The disadvantages of low Dex (and lower Con, depending) can be overcome partially by buying armor, and lots of it. If you prioritize buying good armor and defensive items, you'll do all right.
You may want to think about the sword and shield style. Yes, it's less damage, but you'll last longer.
Even if this isn't your primary fighting style, you'll want to have a one-handed weapon and a shield available. There will be a day when you're the only front-line character in the group, and you'll really need it.
I'd go sword and shield, and buy a MW greatsword for tables where there are already a lot of melee-types.
I was thinking a lot of the same thing, going for armor and defensive items. As for actual style, I was already planning on doing both: He has a Greatsword, Longsword, and Heavy Shield, though I find myself at a lack of ranged-weaponry, which I'm sure I can remedy later on. At least this way, I'm flexible in melee, but thanks for the suggestion and solidifying my decisions.
Which of the 5th level options are you thinking about? The shield is a better choice if you go with horse, because you can just as easily work with lance and shield, and you'll get to use it more often.
If you go with the weapon bond, the shield won't matter as much, but you'll be able to sink you money into defenses more easily.
I was going for Weapon Bond with the Greatsword, but now that you pose the question, I realize I haven't put too much thought into it. Any suggestions?