treantmonk wrote the following question: and it never seemed to recive an aswer.
So when a Druid Wildshapes his equipment meld into his body, just as they do with a polymorph spell.
Specifically, the description for Polymorph spells is:
Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor bonuses, which cease to function).So if your Druid is wearing Leather Armor (non-magical) it is clear that in Wildshape, he loses the +2 Armor bonus to AC that the leather armor provides.
If the Leather armor is magic, so lets say now the Leather Armor has +1 Enhancement bonus to AC and the Druid Wildshapes - is the +1 enhancement bonus lost as well (it is an "armor"" enhancement bonus)
Clearly, if the "wild" enchantment is added, both the armor bonus and the enhancement bonus are applicable, but the description of "Wild" does not indicate that the enhancement bonus is necessarily not applicable when the "Wild" enchantment is not there.
Finally, a Shield offers a "Shield" bonus, not an "Armor" bonus, and the two are specifically differentiated in the rules. Therefore, it seems a "Shield" bonus would tranlate to a wildshaped form and would not need the "wild" enchantment. Am I missing something there? I double checked the errata, no "shield" bonus restriction has been added to Polymorph spells.
i am suspecting that the armor bonus and enchantment to the armor is lost if the armor does not have the wild enchantment.
i also asue that shield bonus is lost(but the Raw seem to have either left that part out or somthing?).
other items like natural armor items, ring of protection and bracers of armor should still work...right?
James Jacobs posted in another thread saying he felt it depended on the form you took. I believe his examples where a bear and an ape. The bear would not benefit from the shield in anyways, whereas the ape could actually wield it and thus receive the shield bonus.
Now if it was a shield with the Wild enchantment then that would probably be an exception as it would likely mold onto the body in some beneficial way.
I believe magical items like amulets, rings, circlets, and bracers should work perfectly fine.
i did read the post you are refering to and james wrote the following:
Since you are here, are you(Jason included) taking notes of certain questions even if you don't respond to them? The wildshape and shield combo has come up twice with no answer, as an example.I believe that Jason's keeping pretty detailed notes of observations and questions that pop up on the playtest boards, but he doesn't have the time to do the same outside of those boards. That said... these boards aren't going anywhere, so when we need to compile the FAQ someone (probably an intern) will do a pass through forums like these to grab the most frequently asked questions.
The "wildshape and shield" combo question is a good example of a question in a thread that I either didn't read or was distracted by other questions in...
There will be no trailing off answers. Come back and finish that sentence Mr.
PS: Once again ignore any typos I make unless they are so bad you can't understand what I am trying to say. I should have been asleep hours ago.
Let's try this sentence then:
I have no idea what the problem is with "wildshape and shield" becasue I don't know what the question is.
If it is: "Can I use my shield when I turn into a bear by leaving my shield strapped to one of my bear legs?" My response would be "No, because you'd look ridiculous. Bear legs are not built to use shields. You'd just stumble over the shield and end up prone."
If it is: "Can I use a shield when I turn into a gorilla or an elemental with arms or some other creature that has human-like arms?" I'd be more inclined to say sure, go right ahead.
and therefore not addressing what happent to a shield and the shild bonus when u wild shape
I guess we have different definitions of "addressing."
He said what he thinks would happen if you;
A. turned into a bear and had a shield
B. turned into a gorilla and had a shield
James Jacobs posted in another thread saying he felt it depended on the form you took. I believe his examples where a bear and an ape. The bear would not benefit from the shield in anyways, whereas the ape could actually wield it and thus receive the shield bonus.
Now if it was a shield with the Wild enchantment then that would probably be an exception as it would likely mold onto the body in some beneficial way.
I believe magical items like amulets, rings, circlets, and bracers should work perfectly fine.
I believe he was just messing around, and that was not intended to be a serious answer.
Edit: The question in question however is what happens when the shield is absorbed into the body. According to the armor enhancement it seems the shield AC would not work in wild shape, and I am sure that is the intent, but it contradicts with the verbage Treantmonk found while doing his druid guide.
How are you using a shield that's not actually in front of you protecting your body? It'd be like saying "if I drop my shield, do I still get the bonus"? Use some common sense. If you can still wield it on one arm, you get the bonus... but you won't get two natural attacks that rely on two arms being free, like slams or claws. You'd get one. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
ofc common sense should be the guid in this matter, and i also think that the intent is that the shield bonus goes away along with the armor bonus.
but an official ruling would still be nice.
also to address other maters like the "wild" enchantment on shields?
and special prop. of armor and shild like fortification and so on.
also what about bracers of armor that do provide an armor bonus,
the ring of force shield also comes to mind... as it might be seen as a weaker form of the shield spell.
as i stated in the former post i will personally go with the rules that normal armor and shield dont work in wildshap unless they have the wild prop.
all other items should still work. if they are not commandword activated.
Creative Director
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If you're looking for a raw by the rules interpretation... a shield melds with your body when you wildshape and you do not gain the benefts of it while you are wildshaped. That's the simplest and no-frills way of doing it.
Personally, I'd let a druid who turns into a gorilla keep his shield because he still has humanlike arms to wield a shield. But if he were changing into something else (like most any other animal) I would say the shield is absorbed into his new form like the majority of the rest of his equipment. If a shield has the wild enhancement, it would still be absorbed into the druid's new shape, but he'd retain the shield bonus to his AC since that's what the wild quality does.
EDIT: James post wasn't there when I started writing >.<
ofc common sense should be the guid in this matter, and i also think that the intent is that the shield bonus goes away along with the armor bonus.
but an official ruling would still be nice.
also to address other maters like the "wild" enchantment on shields?
and special prop. of armor and shild like fortification and so on.also what about bracers of armor that do provide an armor bonus,
the ring of force shield also comes to mind... as it might be seen as a weaker form of the shield spell.as i stated in the former post i will personally go with the rules that normal armor and shield dont work in wildshap unless they have the wild prop.
all other items should still work. if they are not commandword activated.
I want to say it is just an artifact from the 3.5 system to PFRPG conversion. IIRC shields and armor both gave an armor bonus which were specifically stated to stack or something like that (at work and can barely get to this site let alone some gaming site to look it up). Now in PFRPG they were changed to be an armor bonus & shield bonus but unfortunately the change wasn't made to all the verbage that would have been influenced by this. That being said PFRPG is basically house rules of the 3.5 system and if it didn't work there I see no reason why all the sudden it does now if the rules haven't changed explicitly to say so. I guess it depends on how close you are going to stick to RAW. In organized play where the written rule is I guess I could see it argued that the shield bonus stays *but* I would counter with the fact that both armor and shields are lumped under the "Armor" heading in the equipment section so the term applies to both. Regardless, as I said before, the current game is built upon 3.5 and it didn't work that way then so it will be staying that way in our games and being chaulked up to rushed proof reading.
As far as the changing into a bear or ape, by the rules under the polymorph spell the shield melds into your gear:
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body.
Basically if you are changing into a creature of any of those types you don't get a choice, your gear melds when you change. If it were another humanoid or giant or any other type for that matter it wouldn't cause your gear to meld. Of course you could drop the shield prior to the shape change and then spend an action to pick it up after the change.
In 3.0, shields and armor both gave an armor bonus. In 3.5, the shield's bonus to AC became typed as a "shield" bonus instead, to avoid the weird issue of armor bonuses from two sources stacking (armor and shield), but not from a third source (bracers of armor, mage armor, etc) stacking with armor armor bonuses.
Still, the problem with the shield being kept while you wildshape into a gorilla ruling is that it would generally necessitate the shield resize with you - if you wildshape into a large ape, for instance, your shield would have to resize to provide the same bonus. And if the shield could stay on your person when you wildshaped, then I don't see why your armor couldn't do so as well, especially if it was magical. It's not like gorillas have such drastically different anatomies that the armor that a human wears would just not function on them.
Shields are not a constant bonus. They must be used (the term shows up several times in the equipment section of the PRD). That makes them like weapons - inaccessible when merged into the polymorphed form and therefore having no effect.
Where specifically?
Shields are not a constant bonus. They must be used (the term shows up several times in the equipment section of the PRD). That makes them like weapons - inaccessible when merged into the polymorphed form and therefore having no effect.Where specifically?
Ready or Drop a Shield
Strapping a shield to your arm to gain its shield bonus to your AC, or unstrapping and dropping a shield so you can use your shield hand for another purpose, requires a move action.
Shields are not a constant bonus. They must be used (the term shows up several times in the equipment section of the PRD). That makes them like weapons - inaccessible when merged into the polymorphed form and therefore having no effect.Where specifically?Ready or Drop a Shield
Strapping a shield to your arm to gain its shield bonus to your AC, or unstrapping and dropping a shield so you can use your shield hand for another purpose, requires a move action.
By that logic nothing works. Anytime you take any item off you can't benefit form it.
By that logic nothing works. Anytime you take any item off you can't benefit form it.
You mean removing an item from a slot? If it's not in the item's slot, then no, you don't benefit from it.
Likewise, if you're not wielding a sword, you can't swing it. If you haven't readied a shield, you can't gain an AC bonus from it (barring some special exceptions).
By that logic nothing works. Anytime you take any item off you can't benefit form it.You mean removing an item from a slot? If it's not in the item's slot, then no, you don't benefit from it.
Likewise, if you're not wielding a sword, you can't swing it. If you haven't readied a shield, you can't gain an AC bonus from it (barring some special exceptions).
All you have to do is wear(strap it to your arm) a shield to get the shield bonus. You don't have to strap it every round. You strap it once, the same way you put gloves of dexterity on once. Either you have it on(and in a position to get the bonus) or you don't.
Either you have it on (and in a position to get the bonus) or you don't.
Right. . . at some point, someone used a move action to gain the bonus of the shield. They don't have to maintain it every round -- but they did have to activate it once (:
Either you have it on (and in a position to get the bonus) or you don't.Right. . . at some point, someone used a move action to gain the bonus of the shield. They don't have to maintain it every round -- but they did have to activate it once (:
Its not an activation. You put it on, just like you take an action to put any other item on.
Its not an activation. You put it on, just like you take an action to put any other item on.Either you have it on (and in a position to get the bonus) or you don't.Right. . . at some point, someone used a move action to gain the bonus of the shield. They don't have to maintain it every round -- but they did have to activate it once (:
I was being sarcastic (:
If you're looking for a raw by the rules interpretation... a shield melds with your body when you wildshape and you do not gain the benefts of it while you are wildshaped. That's the simplest and no-frills way of doing it.
I think that pretty much sums things up. . . especially since there's a "wild" property for shields.
Its not an activation. You put it on, just like you take an action to put any other item on.Either you have it on (and in a position to get the bonus) or you don't.Right. . . at some point, someone used a move action to gain the bonus of the shield. They don't have to maintain it every round -- but they did have to activate it once (:
I was being sarcastic (:
If you're looking for a raw by the rules interpretation... a shield melds with your body when you wildshape and you do not gain the benefts of it while you are wildshaped. That's the simplest and no-frills way of doing it.I think that pretty much sums things up. . . especially since there's a "wild" property for shields.
Humor does not always translate well. I have heard many arguments with less clout, when the other poster was not joking.
Humor does not always translate well. I have heard many arguments with less clout, when the other poster was not joking.
LOL, we have an official answer in this thread -- I figured I could be little lighter in this thread (:
But I do agree humor doesn't translate well in a rules thread.
Humor does not always translate well. I have heard many arguments with less clout, when the other poster was not joking.LOL, we have an official answer in this thread -- I figured I could be little lighter in this thread (:
But I do agree humor doesn't translate well in a rules thread.
I also saw the (: as a ): for some reason.
I also saw the (: as a ): for some reason.
LOL that's understandable. . . I always use (: instead of :) to avoid my smiles being converted to graphical smiles.