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Ok, my question, is whether it's allowed to add stuff like the dwarven dorn-dergar and other book specific weapons to the Pathfinder SRD and other such listings?
I've been trying to make a spreadsheet with a complete list of all the weapons, all the armor, etc... that's available in Golarion. This I'm working on for my own use, but I thought it might be easier if someone else had already done the work and added it to one of the wiki's or SRD's.
Any thoughts?
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You will want to check with each book and see what specifically is included as Open Content and what is not. That being said MOST of the equipment, spells, classes, etc are open content in Paizo products.
But check each book first. Be safe than sorry.
This may be a silly question, but how exactly do I tell which parts of a book are open content and which aren't?
As far as I can tell, they all have the ogl in the back. And it's not like they highlight everything that's open content?
Also Paizo does have a contact section on this website... if in doubt simply contact them and ask them about the passage in question. That way they don't have to search you out and you can post with a clean conscious.
The declaration of open content is generally on the title page. The OGL page tells you if it refers to any other company's content (and thus how to refer to it) as well as how to refer to the Paizo product in question.
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This may be a silly question, but how exactly do I tell which parts of a book are open content and which aren't?
As far as I can tell, they all have the ogl in the back. And it's not like they highlight everything that's open content?
With great difficulty.
One of the main weaknesses is that you are allowed to interweave closed content with open content very closely, and are not required to clearly delineate which is which. On top of that, there's no standard for identifying what's open content and what isn't.
So. You try and stick to the part of the content that's rules-only and hope for the best.
Not exactly true. Publishers ARE required to clearly state what is their content. Not IN the main text itself by some weird brackets or something silly like that, but in the OGL statement, usually at the front of the book.
It will read something along the lines of this, quoted from the Osirion book.
This product is compliant with the Open Game License (OGL) and is suitable for use with the 3.5 edition of the world’s most popular fantasy roleplaying game. The OGL can be found on page 32 of this product.
Product Identity: The following items are hereby identified as Product Identity, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a, Section 1(e), and are not Open Content: All trademarks, registered trademarks, proper names (characters, deities, artifacts, places, etc.), dialogue, plots, storylines, language, incidents, locations, characters, artwork, and trade dress.
Open Content: Except for material designated as Product Identity (see above), the contents of this Paizo Publishing game product are Open Game Content, as defined in the Open Gaming License version 1.0a Section 1(d). No portion of this work other than the material designated as Open Game Content may be reproduced in any form without written permission.
This tells us that everything in the book is Open Content EXCEPT what they have claimed as Product Identity. So, unless what you want fits into the categories listed under Product Identity, then it is Open Content. Simple. Clear. Concise.
Read the front (I think a few publishers put it in the back) of each of your books and find what is listed as Open Content. EVERY OGL product is required to have a similar statement, and nearly every product from every publisher follows this format.
Chief Technical Officer
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We've modified our declaration a bit starting with the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook (though the old one has snuck into a couple of things published after that).
Product Identity: The following items are hereby identified as Product Identity, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a, Section 1(e), and are not Open Content: All trademarks, registered trademarks, proper names (characters, deities, etc.), dialogue, plots, storylines, locations, characters, artwork, and trade dress. (Elements that are in the public domain or have previously been designated as Open Game Content are not included in this declaration.)
Open Content: Except for material designated as Product Identity (see above), the game mechanics of this Paizo Publishing game product are Open Game Content, as defined in the Open Gaming License version 1.0a Section 1(d). No portion of this work other than the material designated as Open Game Content may be reproduced in any form without written permission.
It's actually slightly less restrictive than the previous version, but feel free to retroactively apply it to any of our OGL products.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Now, to answer the main question, so long as you're publishing your wiki/site/book/whatever under the OGL, you're allowed to use (or not use) anything that's been declared Open Game Content for any book by any publisher. That's actually the whole point of Open Game Content: you can mix and match—and modify—all you want.
Just keep in mind that, per Section 6 of the OGL, you also have to update your copyright statement (Section 15) to include the Section 15 copyright statements of all of the products you've taken Open Game Content from.
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Chief Technical Officer
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This tells us that everything in the book is Open Content EXCEPT what they have claimed as Product Identity. So, unless what you want fits into the categories listed under Product Identity, then it is Open Content. Simple. Clear. Concise.Is a feat named after a person (say, Mordenkainan's Extended Spell) OGC if I rename it? If a location has a trap, are the rules for that trap OGC? Is a monster who is a character OGC if I rename him? Game content is mixed up in with closed content all the time.
Paizo does a fairly good job of clearly marking OGC (and I missed that the OP was asking about Paizo products specifically), but even in their products it can be hard to tell what they are willing to share and what they are not.
I can only speak for Paizo here—other companies may have different declarations.
Overall, the deal is, the mechanics are generally open, while the setting and stories are generally not. So when you see something that's a blend of the two, "unblend" them, and you're fine.
Take your proper name example—since we've declared that proper names in our products are Product Identity, you can't use them. But since the rest of the spell, or feat, or whatever, is Open Game Content, you can use it—you just need to come up with a different name. So if we had an item called Seoni's Slippers of Smiting, you can rename them Sexy Sorceror's Slippers of Smiting, Steve's Slippers of Smiting, Slippers of Smiting, or Slappy Shoes, or whatever.
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So far most company declarations are really darn close to the format you guys use. I have only found one product (not Paizo's) that had no statement at all.
I do appreciate that Paizo is so darn open with their work. You guys don't HAVE to be, and I think that kind of generosity is one of the many many reasons I like your company so much.
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So as an example related to what I'm interested in doing, which is to have a complete list of the currently available weapons and equipment.
The dwarven Dorn Dergar, is that a proper name that isn't open content, or since it's not a person, or place name, is it ok to use? Cause if I had to rename non-magical equipment then it would probably be too confusing to bother.
So if we had an item called Seoni's Slippers of Smiting, you can rename them Sexy Sorceror's Slippers of Smiting, Steve's Slippers of Smiting, Slippers of Smiting, or Slappy Shoes, or whatever.
Didn't Bill Cosby's mom have a pair of those?
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Chief Technical Officer
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Since you're here and answering questions, does this extend to NPCs, if renamed? Why or why not?Take your proper name example—since we've declared that proper names in our products are Product Identity, you can't use them. But since the rest of the spell, or feat, or whatever, is Open Game Content, you can use it—you just need to come up with a different name. So if we had an item called Seoni's Slippers of Smiting, you can rename them Sexy Sorceror's Slippers of Smiting, Steve's Slippers of Smiting, Slippers of Smiting, or Slappy Shoes, or whatever.
You'll need to be more specific. Their statblock? Open. The fact that they grew up in Sandpoint? Not open. Their character portrait? *Definitely* not open.
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Chief Technical Officer
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How can a statblock be open but it be non-open to create a new character and backstory that happened to grow up in Sandpoint?
Our setting, which includes Sandpoint, is not Open Game Content.
To be clear, here, I'm just talking about what's available for publishers to use under the OGL. As a player, you can create whatever you like... and as a non-professional, you can actually publish some things you've created using our setting under our Community Use Policy. But as far as the OGL goes, "Sandpoint" is Product Identity, not Open Game Content; a character's stats are Open Game Content.
Dorn-dergar isn't a proper name, so it's not considered PI.
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Creative Director
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How can a statblock be open but it be non-open to create a new character and backstory that happened to grow up in Sandpoint?
Because Sandpoint is story, and stats are mechanics.
ANYone can use the completely open Pathfinder RPG rules to rebuild the stats for, say, the mayor of Sandpoint. You can build an EXACT duplicate of her stat block using the rules. But there's nothing in the rules that let you build her name or her history or her interaction with Sandpoint; those are things that we made up ourselves and that we're retaining for our own company.
SEMI-AWKWARD ANALOGY TIME: If we were talking about movies, the building you show the movie in, the projector, the film, the technology to BUILD all that stuff, and the training on how to use it is all open content. Anyone can use that stuff. The movie itself, though, is not open. You can't take our movie and re-edit it or use its elements to enhance your own movies.
You can build a duplicate Karzoug using the Pathfinder rules, but you can't call him Karzoug or make him a Runelord or a ruler of Thassilon if you want to publish your work.
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Creative Director
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SIDE NOTE!
A fair amount of game publishers went a particularly frustrating route with new monster stats. They made their monsters' stat blocks open content, but they SPECIFICALLY excluded the monster's name from that. So you could use a monster's stats, but you couldn't call it what they called it in their rulebook. Which meant it was VERY difficult to credit the original publisher, since you weren't allowed to use the stat block's name, and made it very awkward to use that monster in another open content book, since you'd have to rename it anyway and at that point why not just make up the new monster all on its own? As a result, there's a fair amount of really cool content from other publishers that will never appear in a Paizo product, simply because the publishers made it too awkward to use their content.
With the exception of two monsters that are NOT open (the Deep Crow and the Coeurl), every monster we've printed is open content, down to the name. The story part remains closed (all of the habitat and ecology and stuff) but the raw stats themselves are open. And of course, in the hardcover Bestairy, even the flavor text is open!.
A convenient post for a question I have. In updating my Pathfinder Character Excelerator character sheet (see my profile for the latest copy and discussion thread link) I'd like to include content from Wayfinder #1. However, I can't find the standard declaration of open game content--they only have the OGL text. Does anyone know the intent for OGC in Wayfinder and/or if it's listed in the doc and I simply missed it? I'm sending an email to Hugo as well to check...
For the OP, I've got the OGC feats/traits/class abilities/bloodlines/domains (and most of the weapons) from almost every Paizo product (everything through Dwarves of Golarion/Cities of Golarion) in my XLS file. I also have most of the OGC from various non-Paizo products, including the Legends of the Shining Jewel Campaign Guide, Remarkable Races from Alluria Publishing, The Book of Arcane Magic and The Book of Divine Magic from 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming, and The Shaman Pathfinder Edition from Super Genius Games. You're welcome to use it as a data source if you'd like,
A convenient post for a question I have. In updating my Pathfinder Character Excelerator character sheet (see my profile for the latest copy and discussion thread link) I'd like to include content from Wayfinder #1. However, I can't find the standard declaration of open game content--they only have the OGL text. Does anyone know the intent for OGC in Wayfinder and/or if it's listed in the doc and I simply missed it? I'm sending an email to Hugo as well to check...
Since I wrote the stuff on the OGL page in Wayfinder...it's on the last page, FYI.
The intent is to have the mechanics open, but any IP belongs to their respective owners. For example, the Dawnflower Dervish of Sarenrae's mechanics are open content, but the name isn't, because it refers to Paizo's IP. I would certainly say "yes, please include Wayfinder content in your character sheet", as I believe you are following the CUP as well and are not charging for your character sheet.
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For the OP, I've got the OGC feats/traits/class abilities/bloodlines/domains (and most of the weapons) from almost every Paizo product (everything through Dwarves of Golarion/Cities of Golarion) in my XLS file. I also have most of the OGC from various non-Paizo products, including the Legends of the Shining Jewel Campaign Guide, Remarkable Races from Alluria Publishing, The Book of Arcane Magic and The Book of Divine Magic from 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming, and The Shaman Pathfinder Edition from Super Genius Games. You're welcome to use it as a data source if you'd like,
Thanks, I'll have to download your sheet and see if that might reduce some of the effort involved.
Dorn-dergar isn't a proper name, so it's not considered PI.Thanks Sean for the reply. I'm guessing though that the Aldori Dueling Sword will probably have to be listed as just a Dueling Sword, since I think Aldori is the name of a country or something. Am I correct?
That's correct!
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With the exception of two monsters that are NOT open (the Deep Crow and the Coeurl), every monster we've printed is open content, down to the name. The story part remains closed (all of the habitat and ecology and stuff) but the raw stats themselves are open. And of course, in the hardcover Bestairy, even the flavor text is open!.
Just curious, but why is the Deep Crow and Coeurl closed? Not complaining one little bit, just curious.
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Creative Director
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Just curious, but why is the Deep Crow and Coeurl closed? Not complaining one little bit, just curious.With the exception of two monsters that are NOT open (the Deep Crow and the Coeurl), every monster we've printed is open content, down to the name. The story part remains closed (all of the habitat and ecology and stuff) but the raw stats themselves are open. And of course, in the hardcover Bestairy, even the flavor text is open!.
Deep Crow: This monster was invented by the fine folks over at Penny Arcade. We got permission from them to stat up the monster in Pathfinder, but it was for a one-time use, and we can't reprint it or use it in adventures later. (We're fans of Penny Arcade and thought it'd be fun to do stats for a deep crow, basically.)
Coeurl: This monster was invented by author A. E. Van Vogt; we got permission from his estate to stat the monster up as a one-time use, similar to the Deep Crow, but in this case the estate charged us a licensing fee to do so. We could use it again, but we'd have to negotiate a new contract for its use, and they didn't want to have it be open content at all. (The couerl was the original inspiration for D&D's displacer beast, and we liked the idea of finally seeing stats for this monster as the monster was originally envisioned.)
In both monsters' cases, they can be used to anyone's heart's content in home games. The monsters themselves remain the property of their actual creators, though, and can't be reprinted without securing permission from those copyright holders.
A convenient post for a question I have. In updating my Pathfinder Character Excelerator character sheet (see my profile for the latest copy and discussion thread link) I'd like to include content from Wayfinder #1. However, I can't find the standard declaration of open game content--they only have the OGL text. Does anyone know the intent for OGC in Wayfinder and/or if it's listed in the doc and I simply missed it? I'm sending an email to Hugo as well to check...Since I wrote the stuff on the OGL page in Wayfinder...it's on the last page, FYI.
The intent is to have the mechanics open, but any IP belongs to their respective owners. For example, the Dawnflower Dervish of Sarenrae's mechanics are open content, but the name isn't, because it refers to Paizo's IP. I would certainly say "yes, please include Wayfinder content in your character sheet", as I believe you are following the CUP as well and are not charging for your character sheet.
Thanks! I see the OGL v1.0a on the last page, but not an open content statement. I'm used to seeing something like:
Product Identity: The following items are hereby identified as Product Identity, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a, Section 1(e), and are not Open Content: X, Y, and Z.
Open Content: Except for material designated as Product Identity (see above), the contents of this game product are Open Game Content, as defined in the Open Gaming License version 1.0a Section 1(d).
I always try to follow any publication's statements and, if necessary, get permissions for use (had to do that with some of The Book of Arcane Magic arcane/bardic school names).
I definitely look forward to including the content, as there are in particular some very nice traits in there. My sheet does indeed follow both the OGL and CUP (at least that's my goal, if anyone finds an issue let me know!) and is "free forever" to all Pathfinder fans.
That's correct!Dorn-dergar isn't a proper name, so it's not considered PI.Thanks Sean for the reply. I'm guessing though that the Aldori Dueling Sword will probably have to be listed as just a Dueling Sword, since I think Aldori is the name of a country or something. Am I correct?
A quick follow-up to this as I've been wanting to be sure on one point. My sheet is using both the OGL and Paizo's CUP. As such, I've got "Aldori Dueling Sword" as a weapon since "Aldori" has appeared in the Paizo blog. I've assumed, based on my reading of the CUP, that this is appropriate but do want to be sure. Thanks!
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Chief Technical Officer
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A quick follow-up to this as I've been wanting to be sure on one point. My sheet is using both the OGL and Paizo's CUP. As such, I've got "Aldori Dueling Sword" as a weapon since "Aldori" has appeared in the Paizo blog. I've assumed, based on my reading of the CUP, that this is appropriate but do want to be sure. Thanks!
Yes, you can use it under the Community Use Policy, but not for the reason you think.
You can use the word Aldori because the CUP says "You may descriptively reference trademarks, proper names (characters, deities, artifacts, places, etc.), locations and characters from products listed in Section 1 of our Community Use Approved Product List at paizo.com/communityuse/products, provided it is clear that these are our marks." Since the Aldori Dueling Sword comes from the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting, and that book is on Section 1 of that list, you can use it under the CUP.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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SIDE NOTE!
With the exception of two monsters that are NOT open (the Deep Crow and the Coeurl), every monster we've printed is open content, down to the name. The story part remains closed (all of the habitat and ecology and stuff) but the raw stats themselves are open.
This is actually quite interesting.
I have used Derhii in my own Homebrew Campaign Setting as one of the Major Races. I was under the impression that they were closed content and that I could use them for myself and my friends but other than that I was unable to say offer my Campaign Setting to the Public (for free that is under the CUP, not for profit) as they were closed content.
Another Question for you: I have used Derhii as a Base Race in my Setting and as such have toned down a lot of their abilities. I have given them Racial Levels to make up for this, which means that I have used the name but have changed the Stats to taylor them to the Setting. Is this still good for CUP use or is this a no no and therefore only usable as a Homebrew?
As a Side Note of my own: I really like the Derhii and actually created 2 complementery races for my Setting, The Utarhii (Orang-Utan) and the Jilarhii (Chimpanzee).
A fair amount of game publishers went a particularly frustrating route with new monster stats. They made their monsters' stat blocks open content, but they SPECIFICALLY excluded the monster's name from that. So you could use a monster's stats, but you couldn't call it what they called it in their rulebook. Which meant it was VERY difficult to credit the original publisher, since you weren't allowed to use the stat block's name, and made it very awkward to use that monster in another open content book, since you'd have to rename it anyway and at that point why not just make up the new monster all on its own? As a result, there's a fair amount of really cool content from other publishers that will never appear in a Paizo product, simply because the publishers made it too awkward to use their content.
And that very obfuscation they use might actually keep people from using their product links in an adventure, which would spawn sales of the other product...
For example, Paizo constantly references monsters from the Tome of Horrors and Advanced Bestiary, I have both of those books BECAUSE of Paizo's use of them.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Another Question for you: I have used Derhii as a Base Race in my Setting and as such have toned down a lot of their abilities. I have given them Racial Levels to make up for this, which means that I have used the name but have changed the Stats to taylor them to the Setting. Is this still good for CUP use or is this a no no and therefore only usable as a Homebrew?
Well, the *name* is available under the Community Use Policy, but the *stats* are available under the OGL—and the OGL says you can publish modified versions of Open Game Content.
However, I'd suggest that when you modify things, you might want to make a note to let people know that.
This is something that really, really burns me up. Going back through all my old 3.5 manuals, guess what, all ov them state, in no uncertain terms on the 'Credits' Page, "This WotC Game products contains no Open Game Content." Meaning I can't take some of the feats, prestige classes and the like that I've come to love over the years into our newly revamped 3.5 aka Pathfinder games, legally.
Nothing stopping ye olde housrules, but so much for everything else. I understand protecting your intellectual property but almost every damn peripheral has this accursed line of text in it. RAAAAAAAAAAARGH!
And yet the Core Rulebook of Pathfinder clearly states that only specific characters, names of feats/items/gods etc are theirs and theirs alone, but the OGL allows us, the players, to use feats, classes, builds and otherwise mix and match as we like.
So a big hearty 'thank you' to Pathfinder for that kindness to your players.
This is something that really, really burns me up. Going back through all my old 3.5 manuals, guess what, all ov them state, in no uncertain terms on the 'Credits' Page, "This WotC Game products contains no Open Game Content." Meaning I can't take some of the feats, prestige classes and the like that I've come to love over the years into our newly revamped 3.5 aka Pathfinder games, legally.
If all you want to do is use them in your private home games, that's perfectly fine and legal.
What you CANNOT do is to publish them. That is also why you will not see them in any Paizo product.. Paizo cannot use them without negotiating special permission.
Because no one can use them in a published product does not, in any way, limit your ability to use them in your home games.
This is something that really, really burns me up. Going back through all my old 3.5 manuals, guess what, all ov them state, in no uncertain terms on the 'Credits' Page, "This WotC Game products contains no Open Game Content." Meaning I can't take some of the feats, prestige classes and the like that I've come to love over the years into our newly revamped 3.5 aka Pathfinder games, legally.
If all you want to do is use them in your private home games, that's perfectly fine and legal.
What you CANNOT do is to publish them. That is also why you will not see them in any Paizo product.. Paizo cannot use them without negotiating special permission.
Because no one can use them in a published product does not, in any way, limit your ability to use them in your home games.
Since WotC doesn't have a Community Use Policy (or at least I'm pretty sure they don't), it does stop him from going "Hey guys, check out my campaign world. It's free!" since that is distribution of WotC's IP without permission or recompense.
What really REALLY burns me about all this is that I doubt WotC will ever republish anything from before 4th, so even if we did give it all away, it wouldn't be cutting into their profit margin (until they realize that no one likes 4th and come running back to 3rd (joke people!)).